task 1: Watch a video and write 250 words meaningful, thoughtful,technical reflection basic on the two questions in the pdf video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhxjI3t6Ht4&t=52s task 2: Choose 3 pe

Next up is Ithkuil, a logical language.

Please watch Conlang Critic's survey of the language, and then write a post of 3-5 sentences that discusses: what you found interesting about the language and why what you thought could be improved and how . Since we now have some linguistic tools under our belt, please try to use them!

Next week, you will be asked to comment on three other posts.

Conlang Critic Episode Six: Ithkuil ( h ttp s://w ww.y o utu be.c o m /w atc h ?v= e_n 3lo S fe jg & t= 142s) (h ttp s://w ww.y o utu be.c o m /w atc h ?v= e_ n 3lo S fe jg & t= 142s) (h ttp s:// R ohan P an d ey (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 8558) May 18, 2020 I'm really happy we're finally covering Ithkuil because it's personally one of my favorite conlangs. It has a relatively elegant phonetic inventory with a bunch of dif ferent series but I Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe 2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 2/37  Reply  (1 like) think that the 6 tones add a lot of room for ambiguity and misunderstanding. Its goal of maximizing syllabic ef ficiency was similar to the goal of my very first conlang, although my conlang was considerably less complex. I think syllabic ef ficiency is a laudable goal, especially after seeing that study that compared syllabic information rates of various languages where Vietnamese came out on top. I think Quijada tried to follow in V ietnamese's footsteps to a certain extent by using a relatively large phonetic inventory, but I'm guessing he chose to build an agglutinative language because it would allow for even denser information packing with half syllables like -sv- than discrete syllabic particles. Overall, even though it's unbearably complex, I think Ithkuil accomplishes its goal quite effectively but if I were to improve one thing, it would probably be its script. I get that he wants the script to reflect the goals of the conlang, but it makes more sense to me for it to be a largely phonetic alphabet (perhaps with inbuilt digraphs that also serve semantic purposes for clusters like -sv-) rather than an abugida or logography , which seems unnecessarily complex to me.

(h ttp s:// B ry an T o r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6521) 4:32am  Reply  (1 like) I thought the tones were very interesting. They reminded me of the four tones in Mandarin, with at least three of the tones (four if you count both variations of the _ tone) overlapping with Mandarin. The amount of morphemes you can cram into a single word is insane. Doing some research reveals that Ithkuil has 96 grammatical cases. With a case for agent (animate), force (inanimate), instrument , patient , Ithkuil can cover for the subject, object, and possessor cases, but with additional cases to mark participants to a verb ( transrelative ), possessives , associatives , temporals , spatial , vocative, I'm torn between thinking this is really comprehensive or unnecessarily complex! (h ttp J a re d N ole n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 2491) 3:50pm W ow , 96 grammatical cases are a ton! I think its really interesting that it has so many different grammatical cases. I think that the language is both comprehensive and unnecessarily complex at the same time. This language seems like it would work much Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 3/37  Reply  better written out as you would have more time to understand it. But as a spoken language I think it would much too confusing quickly . (h ttp s:// C aris sa C oro na-Pi men te l (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4238) May 18, 2020  Reply  I think Ithkuil is very unique. I believe it's not meant to be used for ordinary communication, but it achieves its goal of compacting everything by being extremely synthetic very well. Overall, its a work of art, and a simple look at the orthography can confirm the fact that it is artlang.

However , I don't see the language as speakable and learnable. It appears super dense and clumsy because its literally trying to stuf f as many morphemes together into every word, many of which consist of a single phoneme. Also, the grammar of the language is absurdly complex making it an unrealistic and hard language to learn. (h ttp S ca rle t P asse r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6789) 11:37am  Reply  I agree that Ithkuil seems to be clumsy and dense, do to the shear volume of morphemes but in a weird way I kind of like it. I think that the shear amount of possible complexity has the potential to make Ithkuil a very ef fective tool for dense communication, which I believe is the point of the language. Realistically , I do agree with you that this language probably wasn't designed to actually be used, but I do think that it achieves its purpose of dense, concise, communication.

(h ttp T if fa n y L i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3541) 3:12pm I agree with you, Ithkuil has its own complexity and it may hard to be used in communication. I think it is more like an artlang, especially its written forms, which is more like stick figures. And though this language is hard for people to learn and speak in their S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 4/37  Reply  daily life, I cannot deny that it is a well-designed language. The complexity of its grammar may be the ingenious design of this language . ( h ttp C in d y D om in gu ez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 2422) 4:39pm  Reply  I like how you phrased that it is not meant to be used for ordinary communication because like you said, it is very complex in how it forms concepts and information. I also think that it is overly dif ficult to learn, and it makes me wonder in what context would Ithkuil work best.

I can't think of any , but I would be very interested to see what our classmates may suggest.

(h ttp J e ssic a L o pez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 2784) 4:58pm  Reply  I agree that this language is without a doubt an art lang especially when taking a look at its orthography . I think it's interesting that along with the goal of trying to be complex the language seems extremely comprehensive but I believe this may be at risk of seemingly unnecessary complexity . Although I appreciate that it is extensive and comprehensive, I don't think this language would be very easy to learn considering that one of the features of this language is that it crams many morphemes into a word. (h ttp s:// G ra ce J a co b so n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 4293) May 18, 2020 The language is outrageous, but serves its purpose. I like how the creator took great strides to be as descriptive and dense as possible in one word by throwing everything they could at it.

The large amount of consonants and verbs, tonality , and grammar create its complexity. The language isn't the most logical language because it's not supposed to express in as few Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 5/37  Reply  syllables as possible. It's only meant to be as descriptive as possible, which it achieves by insanely long words with a vocabulary that appears impossible to memorize (ex. 1st-9th veracity). However , I like this language because it does everything it advertises. (h ttp V ic to ria R afa e lia n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4409) 1:12pm  Reply  Hey Grace, This language, to put it kindly , is indeed outrageously complex. However , you are also correct in stating that it serves its purpose. With its large vocabulary and freedom in the construction of words and sentences, the user can create phrases that are as complex as they desire them to be, yet compact and, if one is to master this crazy language, wholly understandable. This complexity and freedom however does make the language illogical as you mentioned, or non-systematic, as it does not follow a set logic or methodology of word or sentence construction. Very much unlike Lojban, there is no real set way to create a word or a sentence, or any harsh guidelines to follow . The user controls the complexity of the statement, and no rules dictate the must or must-nots of the language.

(h ttp T e rre n ce N g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 8340) 2:42pm  Reply  I agree, Ithkuil is incredibly complicated. However it needs to be that way in order to fulfill its original purpose, to be able to convey as much information as possible in the shortest amount of space taken up. It is indeed not the most logical. There is no set structure that words and sentences have to follow so it is incredibly hard to decipher . But it is the nature of the language to be difficult so it can't be helped. Without the extreme flexibility that it currently has, it would restrict the density that it can achieve.

(h ttp T if fa n y L i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3541) 3:1 1pm Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 6/37  Reply  I agree with you, Ithkuil is a crazy language with complexity . A large number of consonants and verbs, intonation and grammar also happen to construct the degree of freedom of this language, although people may have difficulty or rarely use it. In this language, we need to use limited words to express as complete and meaningful sentences as possible, which seems illogical. Those intensely long words seem dif ficult to learn but they are interesting.

(h ttp C in d y D om in gu ez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 2422) 4:46pm  Reply  Y es, Ithkuil is by every mean dense and complicated, and I also believe that its inventory could be considered excessive. However , I have to say that while having the ability to be so concise and descriptive in a language could be daunting, I think it could also be a phenomenal thing to experience. I wonder how thinking in Ithkuil would change a culture's perspective in the sense of noticing more, and being more receptive and things of that sort.

(h ttp J e ssic a L o pez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 2784) 5:05pm  Reply  I agree! This language is extremely complex and makes it a dif ficult language to learn however I also appreciate that the language has a defined goal and although it is complex to fulfill the said goal, it does not fall short of doing so. Although a part of that goal may be simplicity, its extensive consonants and verbs along with its grammar aid in making it complex. I, similar to you, appreciate that this language does exactly what it set out to do in its goal for the language. (h ttp s:// E sth er L a u (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 3182) May 18, 2020 S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 7/37  Reply  i did not like that ithkuil, needless complexity , too many consonants. This language uses stress and tones that apply to an entire word rather than just one vowel making it very complicated. A pro I found in this language packs a lot of information into a little space that I find convenient.

However, some sounds are represented with more than one symbol which makes it even more complicated to decipher . I also favored that phrases are very flexible, you can be precise or imprecise. overall I liked ithkuil becuase I find the phrases to be a little puzzle, it can be hard to decode but it's all condensed into a phrase. (h ttp T e rre n ce N g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 8340) 2:49pm  Reply  I agree, the language is incredibly ef ficient in its information to space ratio and that denseness does make it easier to communicate in certain time restricted situations however I don't think that it is very convenient. The sheer complexity of the nature of Ithkuil makes it quite difficult to learn and understand since there are so many tones and stresses that need to be memorized. In addition, because of the emphasis on density of the language, there is no set structure or rules for the language which also adds to the difficulty of it.

(h ttp J a re d N ole n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 2491) 3:56pm  Reply  ithkuil definitely has a lot of needless complexity , that I think everyone can agree on.

However, I quite admire that part of the language, and I agree with what you said about [hrases being like a puzzle. T o me it seems like this language would be something you see in an ancient temple or something like that. A mysterious language that's a puzzle to decipher. It's not a practical language to speak, but written out its quite interesting.

(h ttp C in d y D om in gu ez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 2422) 4:49pm S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 8/37  Reply  I never thought of it as a puzzle, but reading that makes sense to me. Everyone seems to agree that it is overly complex, and although that is true, I would like to see what function it would have in actuality . I would also like to see how a class on Ithkuil is designed because I can imagine that becoming very dif ficult. (h ttp s:// K ir b y T sa i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6888) May 18, 2020 Edited by Kirby T sai (https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/users/26888) on May 18 at 10:29am  Reply  The first thing that stood out to me was how the consonants sounded so similar to one another including sound ef fects/breathing which made it even harder to interpret. This is definitely something I think could be improved on as consonants are a big part of a language and having one this complex makes the language even more dif ficult to learn. One idea would be to add different tones when speaking these consonants such as in the Mandarin language or ensuring the writing system is so dif ferentiated that learners will be able to easily distinguish words/sounds. What I found interesting was that the tonemes/writing system is a bunch of lines and zigzag shapes. For a language that strives to communicate densely by packing information into as little space as possible, I thought it was intriguing and fitting that they would use such a unique and complex/compact writing system. (h ttp C aris sa C oro na-Pi men te l (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4238) 2:38am  Reply  The writing system is one of Ithkuil was also one of the things that I found interesting as well. But I just don't see it as ef fective enough for the learner to master . I'd imagine handwritten Ithkuil, in particular, to be very difficult to master , if not practically impossible, due to the requirement of perfect angles. I don't see it as a language that can be used from day to day life in which you can just casually whip out a pencil and start writing. I'd imagine it to be more compatible with a computer program rather than on paper . Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 9/37 ( h ttp S ca rle t P asse r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6789) 11:46am  Reply  Initially , I didn't think about the similarity in how the consonants sound, but I do understand how that could be confusing for a new speaker . However, I also think that this might not necessarily be something unique about Ithkuil. I think that there would be a challenge in differentiating new sounds when learning any language, and the only dif ference with Ithkuil is the volume of those sounds. I do like what you said about how the writing system fits the language. The compact "zigzags" do indeed reflect the dense compact language.

(h ttp V ic to ria R afa e lia n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4409) 1:16pm  Reply  Hello Kirby , Ithkuil does have many consonant sounds that are very similar to each other , and while this may make it hard for some speakers to understand the language, the correct pronunciation of these consonants may actually be easier to understand once you have experience with the language. When I first began to learn Armenian, I realized that there were a lot more consonants than I had ever even heard of, and at first, it sounded as there were three ways to pronounce "k", "m", "t", as well as other letters, but to me they all sounded the same... at first. It became a lot easier to understand the differences between the consonants over time and through practice, and I believe something similar can be said for Ithkuil because, while needlessly complex, I believe it is still logical in its inventory of consonants.

(h ttp E ric W ah l (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3076) 4:06pm I also was drawn to the writing characters, it was honestly a shame the Critic skipped over them just because he couldn’t type them (I guess he isn’t really into aesthetics for these videos). It has a very futuristic/industrial yet ancient feel to it, and I realized that their shape actually kind of fits in with the condensing motif since they could be pushed together more easily and save space. S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 10/37  Reply  ( h ttp s:// E m ilie C la ir e S ch neid er (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6756) May 18, 2020  Reply  Ithkuil really has a lot going on... so many consonants, gemination, tones, and stresses! I thought it was interesting that this language aims to "pack as much information in as little space as possible." While this may lead to all kinds of unnecessary excess components if the language, it does help a speaker easily convey their meaning. However , the super similar looking symbols in the written language could lead to lots of confusion. When the video discussed the example word, I could more easily understand the negative aspects of this language. With so many extra components, it is challenging to make sense of one word, let alone a whole sentence. I think this language would be almost impossible to come into as a new speaker. I think it would be helpful to simplify this language in a way that preserves its intricate meanings but gives more accessibility for new linguists! (h ttp K ir b y T sa i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6888) 9:43am Edited by Kirby T sai (https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/users/26888) on May 25 at 9:55am  Reply  I also agree that the language has a lot going on in terms of consonants and uses various gemination, tones, stresses, and even parts of the mouth/face. This makes the language sound unique but complicated at the same time. I also liked and was interested in how the language aimed to “pack as much information in as little space as possible.” As stated in my post, this was supported by their unique and compact writing system they used which could come of f as difficult to learn but convenient in terms of compactness. Simplifying how the language is spoken or written would definitely help this language be more easy to learn for new linguists. (h ttp s:// S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 11/37 S ca rle t P asse r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6789) May 18, 2020  Reply  I think that the most striking thing about this language is the shear enormity of its inventory . I was overwhelmed just watching the video. I think that if someone were able to somehow master this language, it would be pretty fun to express yourself with, due to the huge amount of detail that you could convey with your words. However, I think that this complexity is also what makes this language rather clunky and non-ideal for actual use. Improving on this would come at the cost of taking away some of the possible details that could be expressed by the language, but this could be done by maybe taking away the tonality of the language, or downsizing on the actual possible sounds in the inventory . (h ttp K ir b y T sa i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6888) 9:48am  Reply  I remember also being overwhelmed with the amount of words and the inventory size of the language when watching the video. Learning this entire language would definitely be challenging but would give you an extremely unique way to communicate. I also agree that the complexity of the language such as its writing and pronunciation make it dif ficult for beginners. For a language that wants to be compact as possible, it needs to find a good balance between compactness and complexity. As opposed to what you said, I think adding more tones to the language would be a better way to add more distinguishability to the language instead of taking away some details.

(h ttp V ic to ria R afa e lia n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4409) 1:21pm Hi Scarlet, The language is overwhelming in nature, and most believe that it is needlessly complex and overcomplicated. The enormity of its inventory allows for a lot of creativity for those who have mastered it, and for users to be able to communicate immense amounts of information in one word, or in a phrase with limited sounds within it. This in itself is impressive, and I too believe that meeting someone who has mastered this language would be a lot of fun. I also believe that there is a reason that this language, as the author S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 12/37  Reply  of the video stated, is not international, because if it was then it would be a disaster . I believe that a certain sect of people can come to understand this language, and it may remain obscure to everyone else. Something tells me that this language is not meant to be understood by many, and that only a select few with the will and determination to do so may be able to master it.

(h ttp A nh M ai (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 8122) 3:42pm  Reply  I also experienced an overwhelming feeling when I first learned that the language revolves about condensing and packing information within one word. This was very interesting for me because in my mind, I would not have thought that this was possible to be done. But like you, I also agree that this would not be an ideal language for daily usage. This would be way too complex and confusing for one to communicate in real life, given how many aspects and factors you have to consider within the word to be able to fully communicate what you want. (h ttp s:// A sh le y I p po lit o (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 2200) May 18, 2020  Reply  This language has a huge phonological system! Although it is large, it seems like it is pretty well organized and adapted. The orthography is what I found to be the most interesting. On the slide with all the symbols, I noticed how similar each one ways and I think it would be really hard to learn. I think the vocabulary could be incredibly improved on. I noticed that one word could have up to 25+ case markers which all contribute to the meaning of the word. The root has 18+ possible associated meanings. I think that this would be virtually impossible to learn because there is so much information in one word. I think this language could be improved by making the language a bit simpler for understanding as the language's goal is simplicity as indicated in the beginning of the video. (h ttp S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 13/37 J a re d N ole n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 2491) 4:00pm  Reply  I agree with your point about the symbols of the language, although I think they look quite cool they are all very similar . This language would for sure be too complex to try and learn or use, but I suppose as it is an art language it's not meant to be super practical. I agree with your criticism that making the language easier to understand would benefit it because I do like how the language can pack so much information into a word. Maybe there is another similar language out there that's more user friendly .

(h ttp J e ssic a L o pez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 2784) 4:52pm  Reply  I agree, that Ithkuil is extremely complex and may be nearly impossible to learn, I think this is important to think about when considering whether this would be a practical language or not, and I can think of a specific context in which this would be a helpful language to know .

Especially considering that the goal of the language is simplicity, I find it ironic that seems to be one of the most complex languages that we have covered thus far . (h ttp s:// S ai K am bam pati (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4379) May 18, 2020  Reply  I actually really liked Ithkuil in how it stayed true to its philosophy for the most part. I think it's pretty cool that this artlang's goal was to package as much comprehension within as few a words as possible. This was evident later in the video when it took about 8 syllables to convey a massive sentence. However , I think there was no point in coming up with its own writing system since that makes the language near impossible to use. Using an existing system can help spread the language. Furthermore, with a large bank of tonemes and a large phonology , learning this language can take a while. If this could be improved in its next reboot, that would help the language reach more audiences. Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 14/37 ( h ttp R ob ert W ong-S in g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3249) 5:54pm  Reply  I really liked your suggestion to use an existing writing system for Ithkuil. I think that it's important that the writing is as clear and concise as the language being spiken. I agree that Ithkuil seems like a dif ficult and time-consuming language to learn. I wonder if some of the tonemes can be removed or combined, because it seems rather complex for a language built on simplicity . (h ttp s:// N an ako T a te w ak i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 3383) May 18, 2020  Reply  Ithkuil was really interesting art language to me because of the pronunciation of the language and the tone of the word. I think this language has the weirdest pronunciation that most of the consonants are not having strong sound and instead it has sounds that comes from your nose.

Also I found that this language connects to basic of the spoken languages(English, Japanese...and more) because it has almost same vowel to our language like (a,i,u,e,o) and I thought it was interesting that Ithkuil's letter is way dif ferent from English, but they have similar sounds of vowel. However, I thought this language is little weak that the pronunciation of each consonants are really hard to memorize because they have similar sounds. So maybe they should fix the sound of consonants to more simple and more variety of the sounds. (h ttp K ir b y T sa i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6888) 9:53am I also noticed that the pronunciation of the language was particularly weird and even stated in my comment that it sounded like sound ef fects or breathing noises. I like how you pointed out that the language’s letters are noticeably different than English’s but the vowels sound similar . This helps make the language more easy to learn for beginners as the vowels are given a little bit of simplicity . You said that the language should add more variety to the sounds since it currently is really hard to memorize which is something I also agree with. I also suggested that this language could add some simple symbols like a - or ‘ to give its words some sort of distinction. Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 15/37  Reply  ( h ttp s:// R ach el S k re n ta (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 3327) May 18, 2020  Reply  I find Ithkuil's large phonetic inventory interesting as it is very diverse and incorporates a lot of sounds that you don't often hear in natural languages. It makes sense that the language would need such as large inventory as its purpose is to be both brief and specific, so it requires addition sounds to convey meaning that would typically be conveyed in natural languages by adding length. I wonder if the creator of the language had a reason or pattern to choosing the phonemes that he did (such as in order of the frequency of their appearance in natural languages) or if he chose them randomly . While at first, it seems like this language wouldn't be very useful for actual communication because of all the auxiliary morphemes it includes, the fact that these morphemes are optional rather than required in creating the sentences gives this artlang more of a practicality as long as one could master all of its strange phonemes and tonemes. This language makes me wonder why most natural languages developed with a similar level of simplicity as opposed to allowing for the incorporation of specific information about a sentence in the way that Ithkuil does.

(h ttp s:// V ic to ria R afa e lia n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4409) May 18, 2020 Right of f the bat, this language has a ridiculous amount of consonant sounds and vowels that can be used. This language is not only tonal, but stressed as well, and stress may be indicated in its written form. This makes possible an extremely large number of combinations and possibilities in this language making it, as the video creator said, needlessly complicated. It is interesting that this language is created not to speak easily , but to speak very densely in a short amount of time, making it very difficult to use. Everything about this language is so pompous and complex that it makes the language, in a way , kind of cool. It feels good to be able to master a language that is almost comically convoluted. On top of that, its intricate design allows for structure and specificity, and the creator notes that the language knows its purpose, and supports its complexity with organization. Personally , I believe that such complexity is not always a good thing, and can make the language necessarily hard to Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 16/37  Reply  understand and master . If I were to give any criticism, it would maybe be to narrow down the consonants and vowels available, because there are so many of them. However, the creators of this language seemed to really know what they were doing, so this would not be a very viable criticism.

(h ttp s:// J a re d N ole n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 2491) May 18, 2020  Reply  Ithkuil seems like a very interesting language. He doesn't discuss it much at all in the video, but I quite like the custom characters this artlang uses. They look both sci-fi and ancient, like something you would see in an ancient space temple. The language itself is quite interesting as well. The idea of fitting a ton of information into one long word is interesting, and the example he gives is cool. However , I do think this language would be quite dif ficult to speak or understand. If one work can mean a paragraph of text, it would be a lot to unpack, and it may be difficult to keep up a discussion. (h ttp E ric W ah l (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3076) 4:07pm  Reply  I agree with you on the look of the characters created for the language, they look really neat! However , on your point about learning/understanding the language, I think the thing to consider is that the complexity is a part of its design and intent: it’ s not an auxlang so there’s no need for it to be easy and universal, and thus it creates a specific audience in those who are both interested in condensed and specific communication and have the patience/time to learn it all. Admittedly not a lot of people have the time to do it in our busy world, but at least whoever does likely isn’t banking on having a language to unite the world like past examples. (h ttp s:// A nh M ai (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 8122) S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 17/37 May 18, 2020  Reply  What I found interesting about Ithkuil is that it isn't about communicating easily but it is about communicating densely by packing as much information as possible into the very little space of word that it has. I cannot really wrap my head around how that would sound because that would be way too much information to be accounted for in one word. But it is an interesting way to communicate, in my opinion. What I thought that could be improved is regarding about the digraphs. As mentioned in the video, why would you want to have some sounds represented with more than one symbol? Because all that would do to the word, is to take up more space within the word. In my opinion, that does not sound very ef ficient and for one to learn the language, it would certainly become very confusing. (h ttp C aris sa C oro na-Pi men te l (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4238) 2:51am  Reply  I definitely agree with you. Imagine the dictionary for simple concept terms? The traditional list-based dictionary might not be very comprehensible with Ithkuil, and that's like the most crucial thing in learning a language. A dictionary would be kind of unwieldy if the definitions constitute multiple sentences and because of its derivational nature, trying to make a complete index would be impractical.

(h ttp A nnie T rie u (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 0322) 5:08pm  Reply  Hi Anh, I totally agree with you. I find that Ithkuil will be dif ficult to understand because of the densely packed information in every conversation. I like how you mention the digraphs and it doesn't really make sense in regards to the whole idea of the language when sounds are represented with more than one symbol. My guess could be that they wanted Ithkuil to aesthetically look a certain way, or believed that exemplifying the sound wasn't enough with just one symbol? Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 18/37 ( h ttp s:// S te p h an ie S egu r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /6 319) May 18, 2020  Reply  The Ithkuil language seems like a conlang like I've never seen! It is obviously very complex and thought out, which can be witnessed in its unique symbols, though it is unfortunate that we cannot use them for digital communication (since the symbols are not included in our keyboards obviously). Something else I appreciate about the language is its ability to assign simple characters that are loaded with meaning and information! This could also be viewed as a con, but I still believe it is a positive attribution to the language since it has been created with such intended complexity and it seems nothing goes unnoticed in their vocabulary . If I had to make some improvements to the language, I may try to include some (generally) familiar symbols into the language, so it doesn't feel completely foreign when learning it. (h ttp S ca rle t P asse r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6789) 11:55am  Reply  I see what you're saying about the unique writing system being a con of the language, but I myself have mixed feelings on it. I do think that a totally new writing system adds even more complexity to an already complicated language, but I also think that the compact artistic symbols reflect the purpose of the language well (ie wanting to condense as much info as possible). Overall, I think that the novel script certainly would make learning Ithkuil a major challenge, especially because it cannot be typed and thus all writing would have to be done by hand, but I also think that the written language plays an important part in making Ithkuil the complicated language that it is.

(h ttp A nnie T rie u (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 0322) 5:13pm Hi Stephanie, I also thought the same ideas on how Ithkuil is extremely complex and that it's unfortunate that it can't be digitally communicated, especially when communicating online is huge in our modern time. Although I would like the Ithkuil language to be digitally communicated and aesthetically more appealing, I do think there is value in not putting any familiar S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 19/37  Reply  symbols into the language that we already know . Not putting any familiar symbols truly makes Ithkuil it's own and more unique to its meaning and independence as its own language. (h ttp s:// J u n L e e (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 9212) May 18, 2020  Reply  I found the various consonants with dif ferent sounds pretty attractive. Although, it would be terrible if I were to learn it in real life. It seemed very ef fective for packing a lot of complex information into those sounds. The writing much like the sounded words is probably more complex to understand. Visually it is appealing much like how the sounds are pretty to hear but the rules behind its writing seem overly complex than needed. It's much too complex and pact to use as an actual language. I think it can be improved on basically everything including the sounds, grammar, writing system, and stresses. Ithkuil is just perfect to look at or listen to but would be one of the worst conlangs to learn myself. (h ttp A nh M ai (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 8122) 3:25pm  Reply  I totally agree with you about how confusing it would be to learn this word in real life due to how packed the information is within the word, given that it does have some interesting variables of consonants. In my opinion, I am not really sure if it is ef fective to pack a lot of complex information into sounds/words. For people who just start learning the language, this would give them such a hard time to break down all this information within the word.

Moreover, one thing that I thought that the language could be improved on is, why would you want to have some sounds represented by with more than one symbol?

(h ttp A nnie T rie u (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 0322) 5:17pm Hi Jun, S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 20/37  Reply  I totally understand what you mean when you say Ithkuil would be painful to learn in real life. There is a lot of meaning packed into words and it makes the language dif ficult to learn because of how easy it is to change the whole meaning of the word just by accidentally saying a wrong letter. I also believed that the writing system could be changed so that it could be digitally communicated and even aesthetically more pleasing. What are some changes you had in mind for the writing system? (h ttp s:// G ale n T u ro ci (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /9 716) May 18, 2020  Reply  For Ithkuil, what I found really interesting was that it tried to be as informative as possible in as little time as possible - that it tried to shoehorn a lot of information into just a few words. I think, as a concept, this is a great idea for a language, as anything that makes what you are trying to communicate more clear and specific without taking up too much time is always a bonus.

Unfortunately in practice, it seems as though this doesn't really work out very well, as Ithkuil seems to have very complicated and overly complex phonology , vocabulary, and grammar rules, which would make the language very dif ficult to both learn and speak. Aside from that, I do find the typography aesthetically pleasing, but that doesn't count for much in terms of language viability - in fact, I would argue having to learn a whole new alphabet works against the language's favor. The best way I can think to improve the language would be to make its grammar less complex and complicated, however I think that would make it dif ficult to make the words as informatively dense as the language seems to want them to be.

(h ttp s:// A nnie T rie u (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 0322) May 18, 2020 Ithkuil is interesting because it's a language that packs as much information as possible into little spaces. It seems like a specific language that is not meant to be used by everyone but a niche group, which is special and unique. Ithkuil seems to be useful for condensing information for more profound and knowledgable ideas. As for something I would change, it would have to be the writing system. The letters in the writing system look dif ficult to differentiate and Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 21/37  Reply  unfortunately can't be conveniently typed on the computer; I would prefer symbols that can be typed online ( h ttp A nh M ai (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 8122) 3:29pm  Reply  I agree with you that this is not a language that is meant to be used by everyone because not a lot of people can comprehend this much amount of dense information within a given word. This makes Ithkuil a little interesting but again, I personally would not want to learn a language that is so complex. I like how you point out the improvement within the writing system and I think that is definitely something to consider . When learning a language, for me personally, I'd want to write out the words either on paper or on the computer , or the more accessible the language is, the better it is. (h ttp s:// J e v in E dric O la n o (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3668) May 18, 2020  Reply  When I first opened this video, I was immediately hit with a whole Foley soundboard worth of consonants and was, frankly , quite overwhelmed. My opinion of this artlang didn't change much from that initial observation; I felt overwhelmed and that things were really complicated for seemingly no reason at all. I was not super happy to hear about Ithkuil being a tonal language (more fuel for that complicated fire), but my confusion was assuaged by the critic's observation that the tones applied to entire words rather than just single vowels, which I was (I guess) more okay with. I took a Mandarin course in high school and by far my least favorite part about it all was saying the wrong words or complete gibberish by accident due to my tones being just a little off. (Obviously context clues usually carried the meaning through, but it was way more stressful than I felt it needed to be at the time.) I suppose the only critique I feel strongly about of this artlang is the tonal bit. A good chunk of that comes from my own personal biases, but much like needless animations are artificial game lengtheners, adding the whole tonal thing feels like a move to make Ithkuil sound more complex and, by extension, more eloquent. I, for one, don't really buy into that. Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 22/37 ( h ttp s:// B ria n L u ch t (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 5001) May 18, 2020  Reply  This language seems incredibly dense to me after watching the Critic. The fact that a whole statement can be compressed into a single word shows this density . The abundance of consonants that the critic showed at the beginning means that there isn't a need for many words which contributes to how little vocabulary you need to know. The lack of words does created an issue for me in that you now need to be able to pronounce a large amount of sounds that are outside of the English IPA. This adds so much complexity that it would be extremely hard for me to pick it up, but I don't think that there is anything to change about the language. The reason is that Ithkuil accomplishes exactly what it was created for .

(h ttp s:// K urt H ig a (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 4647) May 18, 2020  Reply  Out of all the Conlang Critic's video I've seen so far , I think that Ithkuil is by far the most complex language. I thought it was interesting how they were able to make the language so compact. For example if the word "sv" means fear, by adding a root such as "u", its meaning can change in up to 18 ways. I think the language had too many tones instead of having more syllables and that made it a much more complex language. However , by having a lot of tones, they were able to make Ithkuil very compact.

(h ttp s:// T a ily n B ro w n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 7182) May 18, 2020 T ruthfully , listening to Conlang Critic pronouncing each of these syllables and vowels reminded me of someone attempting to clear something stuck in their throat or that is trying to learn how to beat box. In understand that Ithkuil was trying to use every sound you know how to make is too much. There are ways to pack a lot of information while still maintaining sounds that are rough to the ears. The adverb, when translated, is so much longer in English so I do think it Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 23/37  Reply  was cool to be able to condense it so drastically , there were ways to do it to make it so more people would be able to make as some sounds I felt were hard to make, causing the word in general to be hard to pronounce.

(h ttp s:// T a w a R ey n a V illa rre al (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 3510) May 18, 2020  Reply  Ithkuil is a very complex and dif ficult to pronounce language. I think it is very interesting that this language has a huge phonology and that the language was not created to communicate easily but to communicate densely . This is amazing since the point was to use every (or almost) sound one can make. Personally I am not drawn to a language that is this complicated to learn and use. I believe this language can improve by making each sound be one symbol, making the language even more compact and further achieving its goal. (h ttp C aris sa C oro na-Pi men te l (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4238) 2:52am  Reply  I actually don't like the fact that it's hard to communicate and the pronunciation is sort of impossible. When I first heard of the pronunciation I was intrigued as well but now that I think of it, I don't think the language was ever made for people to communicate through it normally . The language was designed for artistic purposes with no consideration for the limits of human linguistic ability . So it's close to impossible to become fluent in Ithkuil. It can express a large range of ideas, it is completely free of ambiguity , and it is very concise, but a language has no purpose if nobody can speak it. Like a lot of things, it's wonderful in theory but bad in practice. (h ttp s:// L iz e th H ern an d ez M artin ez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3775) May 18, 2020 S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 24/37  Reply  There isn't much information provided specifically about the language itself. Overall I think the most interesting part of the language is its purpose to communicate densely . I also think it being a tonal language makes it interesting. I am a bit curious as to why the language has been rebooted several times. All together the language is unique and seems to functional although difficult to learn.

(h ttp s:// R ob ert W ong-S in g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3249) May 18, 2020  Reply  Ithkuil seems like a fun language in concept, but horrible to use in reality . There are way too many consonant sounds in the language and a lot of them sound quite similar . Of course, the vast number of consonants contributes to Ithkuil's purpose, to be as descriptive as possible when speaking. I think that it's an interesting idea for a language to condense loads of information into a word; however, I think that the word also needs to be concise. T o improve Ithkuil, I would start by removing some of the consonant sounds. I think that words can be derived from the combination of a few core sounds. (h ttp T e rre n ce N g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 8340) 3:00pm  Reply  I definitely agree with you. There's no arguing that the sheer amount of consonant sounds in Ithkuil serve their purpose but practically speaking, it's just way too much. Deriving words to a combination of a few core sounds can definitely make it much easier to use.

Though doing so will defeat the purpose of Ithkuil to begin with as having less sounds means deriving words from longer combinations and thus decreasing the density of words.

In reality the language is incredibly impractical but could have some uses in situations that have time restrictions and require the quick transfer of large amounts of information verbally .

(h ttp T if fa n y L i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3541) S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 25/37 3:30pm  Reply  I agree with you that the concept of “ shoehorn a lot of information into just a few words” is interesting but hard to practice . there are too many consonants in this language, which adds a great amount of complexity in order to learn basic word structures. So I think removing some of the consonant sounds may be a good idea to improve this language, but I think Ithkuil’ s complexity allows its flexibility .

(h ttp J o se p h in e Y ee (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 3156) 7:04pm  Reply  Robert, I also believe that the complexity of this conlang in terms of the number of consonant sounds can af fect the function of the language in a negative manner . The similar-sounding consonants and vast amount of information held within every word can potentially derail the means of forming sentences. Ultimately , this language lacks the clarity of word/syllable meaning that comes with most real languages. This complexity , however, is also fitting for Ithkuil because of its control over it. Certain phrases are complex because the creator wanted them to be complex, yet other phrases are controllably simple. (h ttp s:// C ore y H unt (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 6358) May 18, 2020  Reply  I like the idea of trying to pack meaning into words densely , as I have always prized efficiency. I don't think this execution is the best way to achieve ef ficiency in communication, as just learning the basic structure of words this language is a massive undertaking. Also learning the pronunciations of these words, as they don't have much of a real world approximate, would take far too long to be considered time efficient.

(h ttp s:// S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 26/37 E ric W ah l (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3076) May 18, 2020  Reply  These looks into dif ferent conlangs show us a lot of variety , and I like how this one can get as specific and condensed as possible with the actual intent and clear goal of such, as opposed to some of the others we've reviewed that do that unintentionally (creating a lot of confusion and bloating); as someone who does like to be specific in what I say and communicate it has a good amount of appeal, even if the learning curve is a little steep. Normally a language that can go so in-depth and specific would be a big turn-of f (like the other attempts at auxlangs we've seen) but the nice thing here is that it's not exactly required to still communicate, as the rules don't force the specificity, mainly encourage and allow it.

I do agree with the Critic that the orthography could have more to it if it's going to have sounds take on more than one symbol. I think this would be easy to add on to since phone/tablet keyboards support way more symbols and it's easy to get them online or with browser plugins; the Critic mentioned that it was already hard enough to type it as is, and this current version was made in 2011 so another update/reboot could really address the issues there with modern typing technology .

Side note: The look of the writing system is really appealing to me, and while the shapes are certainly different, the style for some reason reminds me a lot of the writing system for the Matoran in Lego's Bionicle franchise (the original, not the short-lived 2016 reboot). (h ttp s:// K ym mie Ph an (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 5512) May 18, 2020  Reply  I think the intentions of simplifying complex sentences into shorter phrases is interesting but I also found just how long it could get to be counterproductive. I'd imagine shorter phrases would be easily translated into Ithkuil but once the phrases become more complex like the example used in the video, the numerous suf fixes become more difficult to follow. It also feels like it could be dif ficult to remember all the dif ferent suffixes that add to the meaning of the phrase but I guess the ability to shorten multiple words with the suf fixes give the speaker the incentive of grouping multiple words/saying that could just be continuously added to the phrase. Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 27/37 ( h ttp s:// E la in e P au le s (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 2868) May 18, 2020  Reply  What I found the most interesting about Ithkuil is how the purpose of the language is oriented around communicating densely , even though that compromises the ability to communicate easily. I find this interesting because I feel like this provides more space for specifications and details that would otherwise be excluded if it were to be in a dif ferent language. A language with this feature even has the potential to change how people communicate and express themselves. What I believe could be improved about this language is to limit the amount of consonants. While I understands that this may slightly hinder with the language's ability to communicate more densely, I think that it would allow for this language to be more user friendly and thus gain a larger following and be used more frequently .

(h ttp s:// E m ma S te p h en s (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 5367) May 18, 2020 Edited by Emma Stephens (https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/users/45367) on May 18 at 9:36pm  Reply  One interesting thing about the language is that it attempts to pack as much information in as possible. Listening to the breakdown of the one word was fascinating, each piece and marking adds to the whole, extensive meaning of the word. Also the fact that the rp can add to so much of the meaning of the word. But the dif ficulty is that the phonology of Ithkuil is made up of a large range of sounds, many that would be hard to distinguish from one another . Also considering there is such a wide range, it would be hard for almost anyone coming from any natural language to learn it as there would be so many sounds outside of their repertoire. This along with gemination and tones would be a very difficult language to listen to. It was definitely more thought out in it’s creation than most of the other conlangs we’ve looked at and would be a feat in itself to learn how to use the language.

(h ttp s:// S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 28/37 S k yla r F in ga d o (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 4250) May 18, 2020  Reply  I find the goal of the language in terms of trying to densely compact as much meaning as possible into every word really interesting as it starkly contrasts with essentially any other conlang I've seen. I personally don't like Ithkuil's writing system from an aesthetic standpoint, and I have an issue with some sounds being represented with more than one symbol which goes against the goal of condensing as much meaning as possible into one relatively short word. I also find the phonology immensely ridiculous. This is an artlang and is not intended to be a universal language by any means so it doesn't matter as much but from a learning standpoint, this language proves to be very unfavorable.

(h ttp s:// M ila S to lle ( h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 5882) May 18, 2020  Reply  Ithkuil is an artlang that was originally created in 2004 and rebooted in 2007 and 201 1. I thought it was super interesting how it used gemination, which I am not familiar with in my native English speaking. I think that the language could be improved by potentially lessening the phonology? I do not know how one would go about doing that, but it was mentioned that the phonology is the largest and would not serve as a good international language.

(h ttp s:// C ris tia n R ey n a (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 5098) Tuesday The language of Ithkuil is very interesting in MANY ways. First of all, the consonant inventory is immense and this is one of the first things that caught my attention. Having such a large consonant inventory adds a great amount of complexity in order to learn basic word structures, let alone entire sentences. Secondly , the morphology of Ithkuil is very large as well so this language does not really have any application for international use as mentioned in the video and I see this as a flaw. The ability for a language to be used internationally and universally is critical to its prevalence within modern society . One thing I enjoyed about Ithkuil is that you can Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 29/37  Reply  express a lot of emotion and direction into a very small sentence due to the various sounds implemented into this language. I also thought the written aspect of this language could be improved and expressed in a simpler way because not many individuals communicate via hand written letters and, as said in the video, it cannot be expressed with a keyboard. Ithkuil seems like a language for those who are willing to take a very long period of time to master due to the complexity .

(h ttp s:// A le x C hen (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 3278) Tuesday  Reply  I thought that every root in Ithkuil having up to 18 associated meanings is quite interesting because this is the first time I've seen a conlang that was quite in depth with meanings based on past conlang videos I've watched. It just shows how the creator really put a lot of thought to make this language the way he intended it to be. However , I do think that because of how this colang seems to condense a lot of meanings and information, I feel like the orthography needs to be improved in the same way. Since the orthography is designed to have sounds represented with more than one symbol, I feel like it defeats the purpose of what Ithkuil itself was designed for in the first place, so the orthography needs to be condensed too. (h ttp R ob ert W ong-S in g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3249) 6:03pm  Reply  I definitely agree that the creators put a lot of thought into making Ithkuil. And I agree that every root having multiple meanings is interesting and unique, but to me it seems rather confusing. Y ou mentioned that the orthography needs to be improved to match more with the language, what suggestions do you have? I'm in agreement that the symbols need to be changed. Right now it's just a bunch of straight and jagged lines, I think that the writing could benefit from other shapes, maybe the use of dots to distinguish sounds. (h ttp s:// S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 30/37 A lic e Y u (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 6001) Tuesday  Reply  I find it really interesting how Ithkuil's purpose is to condense as much meaning as possible in a word because that would make this language a complicated one. It makes me wonder if the listener would have to take a little bit of time to take in what the speaker said in order to figure out the meaning of the word. In the video, the example jan Misali used was " /qʰûl- lyai'svukšei'arpîptó'ks" which had a very long and compact meaning. I would imagine that it would take some time for the listener to take apart that word to understand what is being said since there's so much meaning put into this one word. One thing I would like to improve is the amount of consonants in Ithkuil by removing some of them. Some of them sound dif ficult to pronounce and by removing them it may make it easier to communicate with but I'm not sure if that will affect how much meaning you can put into a word.

(h ttp s:// X ia n d a D en g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 8053) Tuesday  Reply  T o be honest, I don't like this language overall because it is too complicated! I am shocked when the consonants appear , the pronunciation seems hard and weird. I tried to follow the video to pronounce them, and I feel like I am choking. But I am surprised that one word can contain so much information in Ithkuil. But the characteristic also makes the language complicated. Also, the combination of tones and stress makes the language even harder . And since the tones are applied to the entire word, that will make the word sounds weird, because I think in the video, the first tone and the last tone sound like some someone expresses his emotional feelings. But I like the writing system because it looks cool. I think the language can be improved by canceling the combination of tones and stress to make it a little easier. Since it is used to express information densely, it is unnecessary to make changes about the word or other aspects.

(h ttp s:// Y in gze Y u (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 7314) Tuesday S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 31/37  Reply  This is the most complicated language I have ever seen, and I kind of like it because of its complexity . It has so many consonants, tones and stresses, and this is the only language that I know have all the elements of a language so far . I think this language is interesting because it is not created to communicate easily, it is created to communicate densely , the point of putting as much information as possible in a word is interesting, and I am wondering why the creator wants to do that. I am curious about the background of the language. Also, I like the writing system of the language, it looks very cool! I think the language can be improved by decreasing the numbers of consonants to make it a little easier , because some sounds of the consonants are really...awkward, and I feel hard to pronounce them.

(h ttp s:// Z hongh ao W an g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /2 7926) Tuesday  Reply  I think Ithkuil is interesting because usually , people create a language in order to make the communication convenient, but for Ithkuil, its characteristic is putting as much information as possible in as little space as possible, and this is very interesting, the language is used to communicate densely, not easily. Also, I like the tones of the language because the tones are so beautiful, Ithkuil is not like other tonal languages which tones are flat. In Ithkuil, each tone has a sound shift, which I think is very interesting. But I think the language is too complicated, it has too many consonants, and too many stresses and tones, and people cannot type the language on computers. I think if the consonants are easier , and the writing system becomes easier, I will like the language much more.

(h ttp s:// J o ey W ong (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /7 027) Tuesday It is interesting that Ithkuil is designed to contain many consonants, gemination, tones that allow language users to be able to associate meaning of root words to a variety of levels and specificity . I think the language does a good job serving the purpose of communicating densely, at least from the examples given from the Conlang critic. I do however imagine that this language would be extremely hard to learn especially for speakers who are not used to tone or gemination and that its phonotactics may stress to increase more pauses between Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 32/37  Reply  syllables. I don't necessarily agree with Conlang critic's critique on the use of digraphs because I believe this only widens Ithkuil's word inventory , adding another layer of complexity that allows for more density in the language. All in all, it seems that Ithkuil has a good control of level of precision and appropriately serves its purpose.

(h ttp s:// A id an N gu ye n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 8952) Tuesday  Reply  I find Ithkuil interesting in how a lot of information can be condensed into just a few words. It's fascinating how Quijada uses all the possible sound to make communicating dense with meaning. However , the use of multiple symbols to represent some of the sounds go against the original philosophy . The writing system is cool but it seems hard to distinguish between a many symbols, especially when the distinction is the slighter longer stroke. It's cool how markings can be applied on many parts of speech, especially adverbs, as in the example in the video. With that said, I think using Ithkuil to communicate wouldn't be very ef fective since it takes a lot of time to construct sentences. Even though most of the sentences in the language aren't super dense, the large number of consonants makes it difficult for learners coming from languages that do not naturally have certain sounds. I think one improvement could be to condense the number of consonants, vowels, and probably the markings.

(h ttp s:// C in d y D om in gu ez (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 2422) Tuesday  Reply  I found the extent of the phonology very interesting. I think that learning this language would require one to know how to dif ferentiate those very similar sound consonants, and I can already see myself having trouble trying to do so. The idea of densely packing information in as little as possible is new to me, and I wonder what that would do to people culturally , and what their thought process may look like if Ithkuil was their native language. I also wonder how this language would compare to another that uses as little information as possible. Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 33/37 ( h ttp s:// A nd re w L a m (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /6 736) Tuesday  Reply  My initial impression of Ithkuil is that it is a complex language as there are many phonemes and the writing system looks very complex. The one word that is explained in depth in the video is also too complex as almost every letter has a special meaning, creating a really dense word. I believe the grammar is too complicated and needs to be simplified. However , I do think it is unique and bold in trying to create one complex word that tells a small story in its definition. (h ttp s:// J u d ah L u b erto (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 5323) Tuesday  Reply  This conlang is fantastic and I, like Conlang Critic, put it at my favorite so far . However, the complexity brings me to a question about the sentence structure: how are the sentences formed and do they follow the normal phrase structure rules we have learned? In the example Conlang Critic gives, the word seems to be a sentence in itself and abundant in meaning. It gives more information than other languages can fit into a full sentence. So, would there even be phrase structure rules? I find it dif ficult to imagine a few of those lengthy words, bound together, tersely indicating a long meaning.

For improvement, perhaps the language could have a better order to how each morpheme adds onto the idea. It seemed like there was some sort of thought to it, with abstractions in the beginning, but a logical step-by-step process might make the words easier to understand (e.g.

verb-tense-...-NP or something of the sort). But this criticism does not seem very well based, as the language was designed well. (h ttp R ob ert W ong-S in g (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3249) 6:09pm I find your point on sentence structure to be quite interesting. It seems like words just get more and more descriptive as you add on more sounds, so I'm not quite sure if there is S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 34/37  Reply  really structure. The example given in the video was extremely long and honestly very confusing. I agree with your improvement, it's possible that a syntax already exists, but I think that it needs to be clear for people who don't already know it. That also ties into learning the language, as it would be harder for someone to learn Ithkuil, because there isn't structure that is similar to an existing language. ( h ttp s:// A sh le y H ii ( h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3826) Tuesday Edited by Ashley Hii (https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/users/33826) on May 19 at 4:42pm  Reply  I think it's really interesting how this language is aimed at concise communication. Because of Ithkuil's complex phonology , it allows so much more meaning to be expressed through just a single word. I could not believe how much meaning was carried by the word discussed in the video. I think Ithkuil could be improved by making the orthography even more concise, which can be done by reducing the number of symbols that are represented by a sound.

(h ttp s:// T if fa n y L i (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3541) Tuesday  Reply  Ithkuli is a kind of complex language and it should be more probably called philosophy language rather than artlang. The tones of this language are interesting, which gives me a sense of rising and falling, and this concept of tones is similar to the tones of Chinese. The idea that the tone applies to the entire word seems a bit silly when the words can be upwards of 7 syllables and tones could quite easily have been replaced with another syllable. The written forms look like abugida, which is cool. But for me, it is more like the stick figures. The pronunciation sounds like beatbox or ASMR, which is also interesting. But I think it is hard for people to learn and communicate in our daily life.

(h ttp s:// S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe  2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 35/37 K ev in N els o n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /6 474) Tuesday  Reply  It's really neat how specific the breakdown of words are. Some people may not like it, but it seems like its specificity allows the language and its interpretation to be more consistent. I also love how big the phonology of Ithkuil is, however its size might add a level of complexity to initially learning the language.

I think the writing system should be improved a lot. Maybe it's because I am unfamiliar with the language, but the letters seem to be way too similar . There needs to be some diversity to make it easier to distinguish between letters. It reminds me of cursive Russian a lot with how similar the letters are. (h ttp S te p h an ie S egu r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /6 319) 8:55pm  Reply  Kevin, I agree that the writing system in place could be drastically improved to further its international reach. More specifically , looking through the inventory, it includes a lot of unique-to-the-language symbols that cannot be found or replicated digitally , which I find to be extremely limiting. If they omitted these symbols, it could possibly be a lot easier for others to use in communicating with each other! (h ttp s:// H ale y P eczo n (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /4 9287) Tuesday This conlang was especially interesting because of all of the dif ferent consonants that made up the alphabet. It was intriguing to hear them each be pronounced by the conlang critic and how the sounds compared to those of English and maybe German. T o me there appeared to be much more fricative and affricate sounds sounds present and the briefly mentioned gemination, which as mentioned in the video is when a consonant is said for a longer amount of time. Some things I think could be improved is distinguishing between roots as each one has up to 18 meanings which could be very confusing. But overall I think this language does what it sets out to do, though it is very complex. Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 36/37  Reply  ( h ttp S te p h an ie S egu r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /6 319) 8:47pm  Reply  Haley , I completely agree that the uniqueness of this language is rooted in its consonants and symbols, some that aren’t even included in a traditional keyboard! I also agree that lessening the amount of meanings each root can portray would make the language a lot easier to understand, and less of a guessing game for what someone means. The complexity of the language could become more ef ficient through reviewing the included symbols to be ones that are internationally used (though this may take away from its unique quality), so it can be reached and spoken by many! (h ttp s:// A nge la L e u ng (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /3 3215) Tuesday  Reply  I find Ithkuil to be aesthetically pleasing and interesting because its main motive isn't for international communication but it is to communicate a dense amount of information ef ficiently.

Moreover , its consonants are rather intriguing because compared to all the other languages we studied I think its had the largest range and it's very focused on fricatives. I also liked how the creator of the language decided to add gemination because it makes it sound more unique, compared to the conlangs we learned before. Furthermore, I feel like having such a large range for consonants, tonemes, vowels, and stress isn't helpful, as the individual in the video mentioned, for an international conlang. If it were to be a conlang used by many it would have to be condensed or the extensiveness of the consonants or vowels would need to be lessened. (h ttp S te p h an ie S egu r (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /6 319) 8:43pm Angela, I agree that this language is a particularly pleasing one! I agree that the large range of consonants and things can get overwhelming and can possibly create a S earc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe   2020/5/25 Topic: Conlang comment: Ithkuil https://canvas.ucsc.edu/courses/32707/discussion_topics/144557?module_item_id=155067 37/37 1 2 3 >>  Reply  disconnect internationally spoken, but I also think that is what gives it such a unique charm! If it didn’t include all of the variety it does, it may not be as recognized as it is. ( h ttp s:// M ya S o neth ara th (h ttp s:/ / c a n vas.u csc .e d u/c o urs e s/3 2707/u se rs /1 7976) Tuesday  Reply  It is extremely interesting to see how precise Ithkuil can be in describing a complex sentence.

The example in the video surprised me because the word "/qʰûl-lyai’ svukšei’arpîptó’ks" means "being hard to believe, after allegedly trying to go back to repeatedly inspiring fear using ragtag groups of suspicious-looking clowns, despite resistance" and I did not expect it to be such a complicated adverb without the translation. It is convenient to be able to express yourself in a shorter period of time. That being said, just because it is more precise does not mean it is more accessible or easier to use. I think having the expensive consonants and vowels on top of tonals for the entire word makes it very difficult to pronounce as an English speaker. It just seems very complicated when words are over 8 syllables and every root in the language can have up to 18 associate meanings depending on a variety of factors. T o make it a little less complicated, I would apply the tones to either the beginning or end of the word so it is not entirely stressed. Searc h e n tr ie s o r a u th or Unread    Subscribe