Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, or CBT, focuses on patterns of thinking, with decreased attention on patterns of behavior and emotional components of relationships. Researchers have given an enormous am

The expert therapists portrayed in this series share some characteristics in common. Each of them is able to develop a respectful, collaborative, and positive relationship with his or her client. Each of them exhibits a sense of optimism about the possibility of change in addictive behaviors.

The therapists whose work is highlighted in this series also exhibit some important differences. Each of the videos focuses on a different approach or model. These models vary in a number of ways, including the following:

· How does the model explain the addictive process?

· What assumptions does the model imply about the process of change?

· How is theory is translated to practice in real-life situations?

· What outcomes are associated with successful therapy?

· How does the therapist work with people who have mental health problems along addiction?

· What kinds of research support the approach?

This video begins with a brief interview in which Judy Lewis, Jon Carlson, and the practitioner address these questions. We then move on to the actual counseling session. After this demonstration, the therapist discusses the session with an audience made up of practitioners, educators, and graduate students.

Because the video series contains actual counseling interviews, professional integrity is required to protect the confidentiality of the clients who have courageously shared their personal lives with us.

Purpose This series is designed for use in both educational and practice settings. In educational settings, students embarking on careers in the helping professions can learn about each of the models for addiction therapy by watching a first-rate therapist demonstrate how it is applied. In practice settings, professional counselors, psychologists, social workers, and addiction treatment providers can use these tapes for their own professional development. Therapists who specialize in addictions and those who work with more general mental health issues will find new and practical ideas for use in their practices. As the trend toward brief, outpatient therapy for addictions accelerates, more and more practitioners can expect to be involved in addressing addiction-related issues among their clients.

How to Use the Video 1. As a stand alone activity for professional development or orientation to reality therapy as it is applied to addictions. If you are using the video this way, you might want to review the list of suggested readings that is included in this study guide. As you watch the video, note the questions included on the enclosed test.

This will help you identify key points related to this model. If you wish to apply for continuing education credit, complete the test and submit it as directed. 2. As part of an addiction training program. Students or practitioners enrolled in courses or seminars related to addiction can be introduced to addiction therapy models by seeing how they are carried out in practice by renowned therapists. They will value the opportunity to see how many options are available for effective treatment of addictions.

3. As part of a degree program in counseling, psychology, or social work. Students enrolled in pre- professional classes in the helping professions can learn how therapeutic models can be adapted for work with addiction-related issues. Although students might not expect to specialize in therapy for addictions, they will need to have appropriate tools in their repertoires for clients who need help in this area.

Couple Therapy for Addictions with Barbara McCrady Couple therapy is an important model for working with addictions because drinking and drug problems always exist in a context that includes families and relationships. When an individual changes, the entire system is affected. McCrady uses a behavioral approach in her work with couples, focusing on three areas: (a) helping the individual change his or her addictive behaviors, (b) helping the partner learn to respond differently so that the couple can work together on recovery issues, and (c) helping to change the relationship itself so that the likelihood of long-term recovery is enhanced.

Barbara S. McCrady, Ph.D., is Professor of Psychology at the Graduate School of Applied and Professional Psychology at Rutgers University and the Clinical Director of the Rutgers Center of Alcohol Studies. She is also Director of Clinical Training for the Ph.D. graduate training program in clinical psychology at Rutgers. A fellow of the American Psychological Association, she received her B.S. in Biological Sciences from Purdue University in 1969 and her Ph.D. in Psychology (clinical) from the University of Rhode Island in 1975. Dr. McCrady’s primary clinical and research interests are in alcohol abuse/dependence treatment and the ways in which families and other social support systems can assist in the treatment and recovery process. Her research has been funded by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism since 1979. Dr. McCrady is the author of more than 150 published scientific articles, chapters, and books and she is the senior editor (with Elizabeth Epstein) of th 1999 oxford University Press book, Addictions: A Comprehensive Guidebook.Learning Objectives 1. Identify the central concepts of Couple Therapy for Addictions.

2. Specify how the addictive process is explained by behavioral couple therapists.

3. Describe the specific techniques used to apply Couple Therapy in practice.

Abstract of Couple Therapy for Addictions Video This video is approximately 105 minutes long and is divided into three parts:

Part I: Introduction of the model with Judy Lewis and Jon Carlson interviewing Dr. Barbara McCrady.

Part II:An initial therapy session in which Dr. McCrady helps a young couple identify ways to work together on their recovery from problems with alcohol and marijuana.

Part III:Discussion of the therapy session with Dr. mcCrady, Jon Carlson, Judy Lewis, and an audience of practitioners, educators, and students.

Transcript (Insert transcript here.) Future Directions McCrady suggests that several major areas of intervention would be appropriate to provide more complete treatment for this young couple: (1) evaluating high-risk situations for drinking and drug use; (2) developing specific coping strategies for these high-risk situations; (3) developing and implementing a plan to help him stop drinking; (4) continuing to identify ways that they can support each other in efforts to stay clean and sober and to avoid serving as triggers for each other’s drinking/drug use; (5) developing separate support systems to help them stay clean and sober, regardless of the drinking/drug use status of the other; (6) emphasizing personal responsibility for staying clean and sober; (7) identifying other possible major relationship problems and developing coping strategies to deal with these; and (8) assisting them with linkages to potential sources of employment and/or job training.

To Learn More About Couples Therapy for Addiction McCrady, B. S., & Epstein, E. E. (1995). Marital therapy in the treatment of alcohol problems. In N. Jacobson & A. Gurman (Eds.). Clinical handbook of marital therapy, Volume 2. New York: Guilford Press.McCrady, B. S., & Epstein, E. E. (1996). Theoretical bases of family approaches to substance abuse treatment. In F. Rotgers, D. S. Keller, & J. Morgenstern (Eds.). Treatment of substance abusers: Theory and technique. NewYork: Guilford Press.

McCrady, B. S. (1993). Relapse prevention: A couples therapy perspective. In T. J. O’Farrell (Ed.). Treatingalcohol problems: Marital and family interventions. New York: Guilford Press.Epstein, E. E., & McCrady, B. S. (1998). Behavioral couples treatment of alcohol and drug use disorders: Current status and innovations. Clinical Psychology Review, 18, 689-711. Brief Therapy for Addiction-Related Issues Barbara McCrady - Client BTherapist 1: Okay. I've said this before but, you know, it's really, really nice that you've decided to come here today.

Female Client 1: It's good to be here.

Therapist 2: Yeah. I'm hoping that, you know, that we can do some talking that will be helpful to the two of you.

And, you know, by doing this you're also helping a lot of other people. You know, this will be used to help train counselors and people who will be trying to help a lot of people who have had alcohol and drug problems. So it's, hopefully there is going to be a lot of benefit from this.

Female Client 2: Yeah.

Therapist 3: Okay. So we've been chatting a little bit before we started. But let me tell you a little bit of what I'm hoping we can do. We have about 45 minutes and I'll ask you a few questions at the beginning. And then what I'd like to do is see if we can pinpoint some of the things that have been going on associated with your drinking and the marijuana use. To think about are there some ways that the two of you can work together to try to keep going with what you've done. You said you've both been clean for a month now.

Female Client 3: Yeah. Well we started, I started when I was 18.

Therapist 4: Okay. How old are you now?

Female Client 4: I'm 23.

Therapist 5: Okay.

Female Client 5: And I got three kids. I had my first child at 15. And when I started the marijuana smoking I was just hanging out, you know, with the girls and stuff like that. And that's how normally at that. You normally get into drugs by hanging around people that do it.

Therapist 6: Mm hm.

Female Client 6: The best thing for you to do is just try to stay away from their influence.

Therapist 7: So after you started, did you, were you using pretty much continuously until a month or so ago?

Female Client 7: It started off like getting high every Friday.

Therapist 8: Mm hm. Female Client 8: Then it started every day.

Therapist 9: Okay. And when did the alcohol came in?

Female Client 9: The alcohol came in like about 19 years old.

Therapist 10: Okay. So a little after the marijuana.

Female Client 10: Yeah.

Therapist 11: And you'd said to me that before you stopped you'd been drinking pretty much every day.

Female Client 11: Mm hm.

Therapist 12: And how long had that been going on?

Female Client 12: That was going on for like, like from 19 to now.

Therapist 13: Okay. So when you started, almost right away you started getting into the daily drinking.

Female Client 13: Mm hm.

Therapist 14: And the amount you were drinking when you started? Did you start out big?

Female Client 14: It started off with one beer here. Then it went to two beers, three beers.

Therapist 15: Okay. And then before you stopped you said you were drinking six 40s in a day? Is that what it was?

Female Client 15: Yeah. Well, recently until a month ago. Yeah, it was six 40 ounces a day.

Therapist 16: Okay. How about you?

Male Client 1: Well, I started around 17.

Therapist 17: And how old are you now?

Male Client 2: Twenty five.

Therapist 18: Okay.

Male Client 3: It's just like mine came with watching my father. Because while I was growing up I always wanted to be like my dad. And I thought if my dad would do it, it's cool. I could do it too.

Therapist 19: Was this the drinking or the marijuana?

Male Client 4: The drinking.

Therapist 20: Okay.

Male Client 5: And the reason why I'm here today is trying to find out and see can I get some help. Because I don't want to, right now I see how my father is. I don't want to end up like my father. And with my alcoholism and me smoking my marijuana, me and Claudette are having a lot of fights. And it's just like, it's making me in a rage. And what's, I don't want to be that way. Because I'm a nice person but it's just like when I get the alcohol in me and the marijuana, I'm like a whole different person just like if I don't even know myself. Like I don't love myself. Therapist 21: Hm. How do you change?

Male Client 6: Right now it be like she said. It been a month. I've been clean of smoking the marijuana.

And I'm trying to get clean of drinking.

Therapist 22: Oh, so you're still drinking some.

Male Client 7: Yeah. I'm still drinking. But it's not as much as I was because I see how I'm acting around the kids and what I've seen my father do with us. I don't want to do that around the kids.

Therapist 23: What do you see yourself doing?

Male Client 8: It's just like I get mad. I get frustrated. Every little thing they do, it ticks me off. And sometimes I find myself, you know, my voice getting louder and louder at then it make the kids scared of me.

And I don't want that.

Therapist 24: And then do you react to that then?

Female Client 16: Well, the only thing I do is just say to him, "Calm down." You know, since I ain't been drinking and he still drinks. So it's like, "Calm down. Go outside. Take a walk or something." And he'll do it.

Therapist 25: You'll tell him to do that and he will.

Female Client 17: Mm hm.

Therapist 26: Do you end up getting into arguments back and forth when he gets like that?

Female Client 18: When we both was doing it the kids normally wouldn't be around because normally I have a babysitter. So it's like it would be me and him going at each other. And I get tired of having to say, "Well, Ricky, I don't want to argue with you." And then he tell me, "Well, I don't want to argue with you." And then I say, "Well, both of us need to stop. If one stop, we both stop." So we both decided to do that.

Therapist 27: Okay. And you stopped completely and you've stopped the marijuana. But you're having trouble with getting off the alcohol, huh?

Male Client 9: That's correct.

Therapist 28: What's your drinking like now?

Male Client 10: It's like, I use to drink like two pints of Renny Martin every day. Now it's like I limit it down to like a half a pint every day.

Therapist 29: Okay. So you've been, have you been doing that gradually?

Male Client 11: Yeah.

Therapist 30: Okay. And how, that's been over the last month.

Male Client 12: Yeah.

Therapist 31: You've gone from the two pints to the half a pint. But even now when you drink you still are finding yourself-- Male Client 13: Yes. Therapist 32: Getting angry and yelling at the kids and still yelling at Claudette but now you say, because you're sober you say, "Calm down. Take a walk." Female Client 19: Right.

Male Client 14: Yeah.

Therapist 33: Okay. And you don't get angry when she says that? It doesn't make you angrier?

Male Client 15: I just takes the walk.

Therapist 34: Uh huh.

Male Client 16: Because I know if I continue to do and I get too intoxicated it make me want to take out all my anger on her and start getting physical. And I choose not to do that. Because I don't agree with a male putting his hand on a female. So before I get that bad, I just walk away.

Therapist 35: Mm hm. Has that happened sometimes?

Male Client 17: It got pretty close to it, but I always caught myself. And another thing I found out is my drinking and my marijuana use has sent me to the penitentiary.

Therapist 36: Oh it did, huh?

Male Client 18: And I didn't like it. Because it make me spend time away from the ones that I love. And then it was just like when I came back home I'm back out there hangin' with the same old gang like I use to do I would. And I fell back off into the lunacy.

Therapist 37: How did you end up in jail?

Male Client 19: I was selling marijuana.

Therapist 38: Okay. Yeah.

Male Client 20: And then it escalated to selling rocks. Then I got caught.

Therapist 39: Were you using rock also?

Male Client 21: Uh uh.

Therapist 40: Just using marijuana.

Male Client 22: Just marijuana.

Therapist 41: How long ago was that that you got caught?

Male Client 23: Ninety six.

Therapist 42: And how long were you in?

Male Client 24: To '98 of August.

Therapist 43: Okay. Uh huh. Now did you guys know each other before?

Female Client 20: We was friends. Male Client 25: I been, knew her, we was friends before we became lovers. She was my best buddy. My kickin' it partner.

Therapist 44: How long have you known each other?

Male Client 26: Since '93.

Female Client 21: Yeah.

Therapist 45: And then you got more, you got involved with each other romantically after you got out of jail?

Female Client 22: Yeah.

Male Client 27: After I got out.

Therapist 45: Did you have contact while he was in?

Female Client 23: Mm hm.

Therapist 46: Not at all?

Female Client 24: He didn't even know I was still living in the same place.

Therapist 47: Oh yeah. Yeah. So how did you get together when you got out?

Male Client 28: Well it just like.

Female Client 25: A very long story.

Therapist 48: Okay. Can you tell me short version. We have like, we don't have a lot of time here.

Male Client 29: Okay.

Therapist 49: But I'm always curious.

Male Client 30: It was like I got out, you know, like I say I got a previous relationship with my other, with my baby mother. And all the while I was in jail, she was not there for me. I haven't seen my son. She wasn't sending me no pictures. I wasn't getting no letters. No Father's Day cards. No nothin'.

Therapist 50: And he was really a baby when you went to jail.

Male Client 31: He was a baby when I left.

Therapist 51: Yeah. Yeah.

Male Client 32: And then when I came home her mother hooked us up. I been knowing her but I never knew that she liked me.

Therapist 52: Oh.

Male Client 33: She never told me. And then when her mother came to me and told me I got a secret admirer, I'm like, "Who?" Therapist 53: Did you put your mom up to this? Female Client 26: Well, she started saying that we was getting along fine from when he first got out. I was like the shoulder to cry on with.

Therapist 54: Uh huh.

Female Client 27: His girl friend was on something. And we've just been together ever since.

Therapist 55: Mm hm. And you guys, you're engaged now, right?

Female Client 28: Mm hm.

Therapist 56: Do you have a wedding date?

Male Client 34: Hopefully.

Female Client 29: In some day there in July of 2000.

Therapist 57: Okay. Is that what you were going to say?

Male Client 35: Yeah. We have a birthday July 4.

Therapist 58: Okay. Okay. And what is it that has you guys together? What is it that you like about each other or that you love about each other?

Female Client 30: Because we so much alike.

Male Client 36: We're both Cancers.

Therapist 59: You're both what?

Male Client 37: Cancers.

Therapist 60: Oh, really?

Male Client 38: My birthday July the 4th. Hers July the 14th. We've got that in common.

Therapist 61: Okay. How does that make you guys alike?

Female Client 31: We just like the same things.

Male Client 39: I'm like the male version and she's the woman version of the Cancer.

Therapist 62: See, I'm a Taurus. And I know this, we're stubborn. But I don't know anything about Cancers.

I don't have any of them in my family. So you guys have some traits in common. But what? Give me an idea of like a little bit of what those are.

Male Client 40: Like ... she can cook.

Therapist 63: Uh huh.

Male Client 41: And I'm a good, I'm a big eater. Secret club.

Therapist 64: Uh huh. Male Client 42: And plus the way how she got a good head on her shoulder. She want things out of life. You know? And I want the same things in life that she want. And her kids love me and I love them. So I felt like if I could love the woman I got to love the kids too because the kids come with the package.

Therapist 65: Okay. So there are a lot of things about her that you really love. How about you? What are the things, a couple of the things-- Female Client 32: Well what I like about him is that he's strong. I like having like a male role model around my sons because the other two kids father, their not in our lives, so. And another thing, I feel kind of safe. I don't have to be at home alone. And I got somebody to talk to when I don't got nobody else to talk to. And when I talk to him it's just like one of my best friends. Somebody that I can confide in because everybody needs someone to confide in.

Therapist 66: Now are the, is the alcohol and marijuana the main kind of wedge between the two of you?

Female Client 33: Yeah. Because it's like if, how can I put this? If we use, if we both use together it starts a fight. But I notice if we not using we're like peas in a pod. We're so much together. But when we're smoking marijuana and drinking it's like we're lavishing at each other. "Oh, you did this." "No, I didn't." "Are you lookin' at her?" And, you know, stuff like that it starts.

Male Client 43: A lot of jealousy come into play.

Therapist 67: Is that a big thing that you guys argue about?

Male Client 44: Yeah. Because the marijuana use to find me so gooped up and she would say, "You lookin' at her." And, "You did this." And, "Who, this and that?" And, "How did this hair get inside the comb?" And, oh!

Therapist 68: Okay. So did you go both ways?

Male Client 45: Both ways.

Therapist 69: I mean, is he right? You get jealous with him? Okay. And do you get jealous of her too?

Female Client 34: Yeah.

Therapist 70: Huh. Okay. So that's, and when you guys are straight, are those feelings and thoughts still there or?

Male Client 46: It's just like when we straight it's like we just connect. Ain't no argument, no fights, no nothin', we just are bond.

Therapist 71: So, do you have any other areas that you have concerns about between the two of you when you're straight?

Female Client 35: The only other area I have a problem with us is it's more like me arguing about money.

How are we going to get the next outfit, shoes, whatever we want. You know, that's a big major in our relationship that gives us a down fall too because sometimes I feel like I can't give him what he want. Like when birthdays roll around, you know, you want to buy your loved one something.

Therapist 72: Right.

Female Client 36: And if you don't have the money to do it you just get flustrated about it. And the same for him. He gets flustrated.

Therapist 73: I mean do you guys end up arguing about it? Female Client 37: Mm hm.

Male Client 47: Mm hm.

Male Client 48: And they get to the point sometimes, like money is the biggest actual cause. Like she said, there's things she want and there's things I want. And I'm trying not to go back the wrong way and try to go the right way for a change but it just like I fill out all these applications. I go every place there is to go to further look for the job, but all they can see is the "X." Therapist 74: You mean the X from having been-- Male Client 49: The X from the penitentiary, yeah.

Therapist 75: In the penitentiary. yeah.

Male Client 50: And I'm like, that make me want to use more too. They get more use. Take back up the marijuana and use it because, like you say, it calms me down. I have to think about nothin'. And I'm trying not to do that. And if I continue to smoke marijuana, I'm going to go back that wrong way instead of going the right way. So like now I'm just trying to basically be a family man.

Therapist 76: Yeah. Yeah.

Male Client 51: I'm trying to be something that my father wasn't to me.

Therapist 77: It sounds like you have really, you both have really, really strong reasons to be straight.

Male Client 52: Mm hm.

Therapist 78: And those, you really feel those very deeply.

Female Client 38: Mm hm.

Therapist 79: And the hard part is figuring out how to make that happen it really sounds like.

Male Client 53: Right.

Therapist 80: Now I'm going to ask some question, when you were using did you mostly drink together and smoke together?

Male Client 54: Together.

Female Client 40: Mm hm.

Therapist 81: Ever, did you ever, were you ever using separately or?

Male Client 55: It's like when I'm not around her-- Female Client 41: Sometimes when he get with his friends.

Male Client 56: Right. Where my friends are. Smoke my marijuana with them. Drink with them. And the same for her.

Therapist 82: Okay. Because, you know, when I think about recovery, one of the things, especially when, you know, with both people using, one of the things that's important to think about first is like how much is your using kind of intertwined with each other. And if you're using together most of the time then it's really good if you're both clean.

Male Client 57: Right.

Therapist 83: And, you know, we're going to talk about some ways that you can support each other and be able to stay clean. But the other side of it is, is one of you, you know, like if one of you has a slip and one of the things, you know, we know with alcohol and drugs is a lot of times it takes a few tries to get it right.

Male Client 58: Uh huh.

Therapist 84: That you get clean and sober for a while and then maybe go back to it a little bit. And then you get, then you go back to being clean. So you may slip up three or four times. And you really don't want to have both of you slip up if you one of you has a problem.

Female Client 42: Right.

Male Client 59: Right.

Therapist 85: So I guess what, you know, I think might be really helpful to talk about is first kind of some of the things that you have been doing already that have been helping you stay clean.

Female Client 43: Yeah. We like go to walks to parks and stuff like that.

Male Client 60: Yeah. That helps a lot.

Female Client 44: It helps keeps off of _______. Go out to eat. Something to take our mind off, you know, getting high all the time.

Therapist 86: Mm hm.

Female Client 45: Because if you sit around the house, that's the first thing that gonna come, "Oh, go get me a beer." Or, "Oh, go get me a bag of weed." Male Client 61: Because I'm bored. So we try to keep active.

Therapist 87: Okay. Do you have beer in the house?

Female Client 46: No.

Male Client 62: No, we don't have no beer in the house because you know-- Female Client 47: I'll drink it all.

Male Client 63: She will drink it all.

Female Client 48: Yeah.

Male Client 64: Because we don't want none of that stuff around the kids. Because it's so easy for a kid to see that up in there that not know no better and say, "That's a pop." And he'll open the can and he'll drink it.

There you go. You got a messed up kid. So we try not to do that.

Therapist 88: But the Remy Martin is in the house?

Male Client 65: That there is like it don't get a chance to be there because I drink it so much, drink it so fast. Therapist 89: Okay. So you don't stock up. Like what do you-- Male Client 66: It's just like I go, I go to the store. I buy one and I drink. When that gone I go to the store again and I buy another one and I drink it.

Therapist 90: Mm hm.

Male Client 67: It's like two a day.

Therapist 91: Okay. So you're keeping beer out of the house.

Male Client 68: Yeah.

Therapist 92: Does that help you?

Female Client 49: Yeah. It help me.

Therapist 93: Mm hm. Okay. And you're not stocking up. At least you have to go back and forth and get it.

Male Client 69: I go back and forth and I drinks it before I even get in the house.

Therapist 94: Okay. So now you're-- Male Client 70: And then I go back to sleep.

Therapist 95: Okay. So now you're drinking, you're not drinking at home anymore.

Male Client 71: Uh uh. I drink outside. Throw it away. Drink another one. Throw it away. Then I come in the house and ______ more. I lay down and go to sleep.

Therapist 96: Is that an agreement that you guys made?

Male Client 72: Yeah.

Therapist 97: That you wouldn't drink in the house anymore?

Female Client 50: Because if he drink it's gonna make me want to drink.

Male Client 73: Right. And I see she trying to stop.

Therapist 98: Yeah. Yeah.

Male Client 74: So I don't want to influence her to go on back to drinking her beers. So me I stay outside and I drink mine. Then I come in the house.

Therapist 99: Mm hm. When he comes in when he's been drinking, does that make you want to drink?

Female Client 51: No. That don't make me want to drink. That just make me see how I was a month ago.

Therapist 100: Have you given him any feedback about that? About the way you see him when he's been drinking?

Female Client 52: Not really.

Therapist 101: Give him an idea. I'm curious about what you see. Female Client 53: I just see him waddling through.

Therapist 102: You can tell, tell him.

Female Client 54: "Fix me something to eat." And I'll be like, "If your stomach hurt, you should have ate before you drunk." Then he like, "So what? Just fix me something to eat." Then he'll go in there and lay down and watch TV.

Therapist 103: Is that the way you think you were also when you were drinking?

Female Client 55: Mm hm.

Female Client 56: I was worse.

Male Client 75: She was worse.

Therapist 104: Really? How so?

Male Client 76: It was like after she get through drinking or smoking the marijuana, everything make her mad. Everything.

Female Client 57: If somebody leaves a dish, the littlest thing in the house, that would just tick me off.

Somebody leaves a dish or somebody leave water in the sink. I would just say, "I, I clean up this house all day and this was out." And that would start us arguing like, "Oh, well I'll get it up." You know?

Male Client 77: Yeah.

Therapist 105: Okay. So in terms of the things that have been working so far, you've been trying to keep busy.

Male Client 78: Mm hm.

Female Client 58: Mm hm.

Therapist 106: So taking the walks. Going shopping.

Male Client 79: Right.

Female Client 59: Or going out to look for jobs.

Therapist 107: Going out looking for jobs. Going out to eat. Those kinds of things.

Male Client 80: Mm hm.

Therapist 108: So you really, do you kind of get up each morning and have a plan for the day?

Female Client 60: Mm hm.

Male Client 81: Yeah.

Therapist 109: Okay. That's really good. So that's one big thing. You're keeping the alcohol pretty much out of the house.

Female Client 61: Right.

Therapist 110: And you got his drinking out of the house. Female Client 62: Right.

Male Client 82: Mm hm.

Therapist 111: And you're not buying weed.

Female Client 63: No.

Male Client 83: No.

Therapist 112: Okay. What else are you doing to help yourselves right now? This is a great start.

Female Client 64: Oh, what else are we doing? I got us _____ more folks and are less and start on the outside. Like we try to keep the negative company away. Like the company that brings marijuana, we try to keep them away.

Therapist 113: How do you do that? His friends?

Female Client 65: Just tell them that we busy or that we either gone or just spending family time. There's no time to circulate and listen to music or worry about who was on the soaps yesterday. Because that's what start the drinking.

Therapist 114: Okay. Now since you've gotten out of jail, are there people that are kind of coming back looking to you as somebody who's gonna sell?

Male Client 84: Yeah. They be, the guys be asking me things like, do I want to jump back down. And do I want to continue to gang, do I want to gang bang some more? And do I want to sell this. And we give you such and such amount and you make some money and give us this cut. But I choose not to.

Therapist 115: Had they been coming around the house at first?

Male Client 85: At first they started coming around the house but I've been putting my foot down and snapping like, "Man, get away from here. Don't come back." Female Client 66: Or when I come to the door I say, "He sleep. He don't want to be bothered." Therapist 116: Okay. So that's another really important thing that you're doing is you're keeping, the people who would like you to get right back into it you're keeping away.

Male Client 86: Right.

Therapist 117: And other people just who might be tempting for you to drink with and smoke with, you're trying to avoid them.

Male Client 87: Trying to avoid them, yeah.

Therapist 118: What else? You guys are doing, I think this is really, it's really impressive. You said you hadn't gotten any kind of counseling or anything.

Male Client 88: No.

Therapist 119: You're just doing this.

Female Client 67: We just decided on our own. Sometimes we just sit back and just think about all the things we did do and what we gotta do to make a change. Because it's not gonna change if you don't let it. Therapist 120: So when you think about the things that you did when you were drinking and smoking?

Male Client 89: Mm hm. Mm hm.

Male Client 90: And we'd think like all that money we was spending on marijuana and alcohol-- Female Client 68: Could have been going on trips to Kiddie Land.

Male Client 91: We could have been going on a trip taking the kids to Kiddie Land and doing something worthwhile with the money instead of doing the negative stuff.

Therapist 121: Mm hm. Okay. Do you have that written down anywhere?

Male Client 92: Mm mm.

Therapist 122: I'll tell you, that's my first piece of advice to you that you each spend a little time and just write down ten things that you didn't like about, you know, yourself or the way your life was going when you were using.

Male Client 93: I never think about it but now that you suggested I will start doing it.

Female Client 69: It’s like a picture in my mind.

Therapist 123: You know, a suggestion you write it down, it's the weirdest thing. You like, you can be clean for a while and it all starts fading away. You start kind of forgetting. And, you know, I mean I can see people that come in to see me for counseling and then, you know, say, you know, somebody came in because he had missing work a lot because he was, you know, because he was drinking. And a few weeks later I'll say, "Let's kind of review some of the reasons that you wanted to, you know, stop drinking." And he won't even remember the work thing. It's really, like you don't believe it can happen-- Female Client 70: When you want to stop.

Therapist 124: Yeah.

Female Client 71: If you really true about stopping, one thing you can do is keep your right hand in back of your mind. And you don't have to write it down because if it's something you want, you gotta get it. Ain't nobody else gonna get it for you. And sometimes you'll get tired and have a nervous breakdown it's like, "Oh, I never had this. I never had that." And you just want to just say, "Forget it. I'm gonna get it." And that's just it. I'm gonna go to work. I'm gonna do this. And you gotta put a goal there and you gotta do it.

Therapist 125: Mm hm. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you the kind of what's inside and what's in your head is really important. But sometimes getting it kind of out on paper is it sort of makes it even more real.

Female Client 72: Right.

Therapist 126: It's just a suggestion.

Male Client 94: Okay.

Therapist 127: All right. But you've been doing a lot. So you've been really focusing on your motivation and your reasons. You've been doing a lot of very concrete things, it sounds like, that have been pretty helpful.

Um, what happens when you, do either of you have times where you feel like using but you don't? Do you miss it or? Male Client 95: It just like sometimes I feel like, "Man, it's boring. Maybe I should go over there and go to the liquor store and get me a drink or something." Therapist 128: Yeah.

Male Client 96: Or like, "Man, should I go over there onto the next corner and buy me a bag of marijuana." Therapist 129: Do you, often times do you usually, are there logical reasons why those feelings come up? Or those thoughts. You know we, in my business we call them triggers. You know, there's often, there's like something out there in the world.

Female Client 73: Something out on TV or something like that.

Male Client 97: Right.

Therapist 130: Yeah. Something on TV or a person or a certain situation.

Male Client 98: Right.

Therapist 131: Can you predict what are going to be triggers for you?

Male Client 99: It's just like when I come in and there ain't no food or nothin' ready, then it make me want to go okay, maybe I'll go get some marijuana.

Therapist 132: Does she know that?

Male Client 100: Yeah. She know that. I got, she know I gots to eat. That what helps me the most.

Female Client 74: That's what he be worryin about.

Male Client 101: The more I'm eating, the more I won't smoke marijuana. Eating and working out. That's it.

Female Client 75: For me, when I look at the TV and I see a big Budweiser can. I say, "Ah, that look cold and good. I want some." Then I say, "Nah, that's okay." Therapist 133: Okay. So, for you being hungry is a trigger. For you, seeing it is a trigger. Are there other triggers?

Female Client 76: Not really.

Therapist 134: Other things that you notice that you miss it or?

Male Client 102: No.

Therapist 135: Mm hm. When you go, are there times like when you feel discouraged about the job hunting or is that a common?

Male Client 103: Now, that there-- Female Client 77: Sometimes.

Therapist 136: Yeah.

Female Client 78: But it don't make me want to use.

Therapist 137: No? Female Client 79: It just make me want to kill the people there-- Therapist 138: Oh, okay.

Female Client 80: That won't call me.

Therapist 139: Yeah. Yeah. Excuse me.

Female Client 81: And I'll be like just give me a fair chance. You know, I'm hard working. I can do things.

More than one thing. But if I'm taught, I can do it.

Therapist 140: Mm hm. Let me ask you, I want to ask you to try to talk to each other about something. And what I'd like to ask is for you to each think about one way. It sounds like you've been doing a lot of things to try to help each other and to help yourselves. But I'm wondering if we can talk a little bit about some ways that you could actually, additional ways that you could help each other.

Male Client 104: Okay.

Therapist 141: Okay? So you just think about that for a couple of moments here. And what I'd like to ask you to do is each of you--I don't care who goes first here--but to tell the other person something that you'd like them to do that would be helpful to you in staying clean and sober. And then you don't have to say yes, you're going to do it. You don't have to agree. But I want you to kind of get started and sort of thinking more about what are, you know, because you've been doing a bunch of things but it sounds like, you know, there is, you're still having some tough times.

Male Client 105: Right.

Therapist 142: So maybe focus on some of those times when, that are tough. Like when you're watching the TV or you're feeling hungry or that kind of thing. To think about like some ways to make some requests of each other some ways to help.

Male Client 106: Okay.

Therapist 143: Okay. Who wants to go first?

Female Client 82: Well, what I want you to do is go get your I.D.s, go on out there get you a job, and stop being so jealous all the time. That's all you gotta do. And then that will keep you from being around the house seeing your guys out there on the corner making you want to be out there.

Male Client 107: Okay.

Therapist 144: What are you, you can react to her a little bit.

Male Client 108: Okay.

Therapist 145: Tell her what you think of these requests.

Male Client 109: The request is, you know what I'm saying, A-Okay. But the jealous part, that's gonna be hard. That's gonna be hard. Because my male ego gets in the way and I'm pretty sure any male would feel the same way I feel. It's just like you got a lot of male friends. And I know they're your friends, but that man part in me be like, "Oh, I don't want you walking my girl friend home. That's my job." Female Client 83: Okay. And what else. Male Client 110: And when I see you do things like that there, that make me want to pick up a drink and then go out there and start a fight with the guy.

Therapist 146: You can say how, what's your reaction to that.

Female Client 84: I told you that I was going to stop. I'm not gonna hang with no more guy friends, okay.

Male Client 111: If you would stop doing that, then maybe I wouldn't have to all the time pick up a bottle and think, "Is she cheating on me? Is she doing this or is she doing that?" Female Client 85: But answer this question, if I was doing something with them, why would I bring them around you? That would be the least thing I would do.

Male Client 112: But you know how it is, when I'm drinking that don't be on my mind. When I'm drinking I block out anything. And I want to get physical and it make me get violent. So if you know that's how it make me feel, don't even do it. And then maybe I stop some of that drinking.

Female Client 86: Okay.

Therapist 147: Is that an okay solution? I mean because I guess, I, you're both being really clear. You'd like him to be less jealous. And you'd like her to-- Female Client 87: Not have male friends.

Therapist 148: Not have male friends.

Male Client 113: Not have too many. It's okay to have one that we both know. That we both kick it around.

And I know what he on and he know what I on. Not when you just got you know the guys and I don't know them.

Therapist 149: Explain this to her.

Male Client 114: I want to get to know these guys.

Female Client 88: You don't ever give them a chance. When they see you coming, you look, "Ha, ha. Who is that with my woman." Male Client 115: That's any man reaction though. If any man-- Female Client 89: You don't walk up like, "How ya doin', brother? How you doin'?" You know.

Male Client 116: The first thing that come across a man's mind.

Female Client 90: He don't do that.

Therapist 150: Why don't you talk one at a time. Then you'll hear each other better.

Male Client 117: Okay.

Therapist 151: I'm having trouble hearing both of you. So just one at a time.

Male Client 118: The first thing that comes across a man's mind is this, "Okay, when you left you was by yourself. You didn't say you was going to kick it with your guy friend. You say you was going with your girl friend." Female Client 91: I was with my girls. Go back there later at night, they was coming my way, so they walk with me. It's 12:00. What you want me to do? The bus stopped running.

Male Client 119: But I was on my way to come get you.

Female Client 92: But how did I know that?

Male Client 120: Because I know that. I know that. And you know wherever you at, I'm gonna come to get you. I get upset when you stay out since past 10:00. So you knew I was coming to get you. So then I see you with two guys walking you home and they didn't want to come up and walk where I was walking, they just turn the corner. Yeah, that's making me mad. Like I said.

Female Client 93: And what did I tell you, I was sorry.

Male Client 121: Right.

Female Client 94: And then I told you their names.

Male Client 122: Okay. But if you work on that more, and I promise you I might slow down on some of the drinking because, you some of the problem.

Female Client 95: Oh, so now you want to blame it on me.

Male Client 123: You some of the problem. You some of the problem because this is like I want to be able to get you anything. I seen guys out there, you know, that got more than I got. You know what I'm saying?

Driving the Lexus truck and the Expeditions and I don't got that. I'm still trying to be the family orientated man type stuff. I want to sit up there and get you stuff the right way. Where here there's a guy I cannot compete with him and he got $20, $30,000 in his pocket and a Lexus truck and he offering to get you the world and I can't. So that make me want to go pick up a bottle or pick up the marijuana.

Female Client 96: So you actually think because he offer me the world I'm gonna go?

Female Client 97: I'm going where my heart at. Not because of what they offer me. Because I figured if I had things that they can give me, you can give it to me too, only a little more. Because I can trust you. And that's all I be asking you to do. Trust me.

Male Client 124: I can work on it.

Therapist 152: You have a lot of, both have a lot of feelings about this, obviously.

Male Client 125: Yeah.

Female Client 98: Yeah. We do.

Therapist 153: Mm hm. And it seems like you have, in a way you have, you're listening to each other pretty carefully. You have very different solutions. Your solution is that she should stop hanging with anybody else.

Male Client 126: Or at least let me get to know them. Know them as a person.

Therapist 154: Okay. Okay, so you at first was like don't spend any time with any of them. The second was let me get to know them. And you're asking that he trust you. To trust that you really love him and he's the person you want to be with.

Female Client 99: Right. Therapist 155: So you're in a little bit different places here about this. You have kind of different, a little bit different-- Female Client 100: Because he don't got not trust in me.

Therapist 156: Mm hm.

Female Client 101: If he just gave me a little trust then maybe he would see the type of person I am. If you don't trust me, that make me look like the villain because you're gonna always square me in a corner. Like, "Oh, you is doin' it." When all along I may not be.

Therapist 157: What would be, if we can, I wonder if there is a way that you guys can get closer together about this. You know, if there's some kind of middle ground where-- Female Client 102: That's the whole point.

Therapist 158: Where you don't have to give up every male friend but you don't have to be kind of constantly thinking, "Oh my God, there's another one. I don't know who he is. And I don't know what they're doing.

And I feel bad." I'm just wondering if there's something that Claudette could do that would be less than giving everybody up. Can you think of something specific that she could do that would help you?

Male Client 127: Spend more time with me than with your friends. That's it.

Female Client 103: Now you didn't say spend more time with me.

Male Client 128: Spend more time with me.

Female Client 104: Then I'd be with him 24, 7.

Male Client 129: The time we spend together is, you know like I know, if we right there together in the afternoon, why do your friends come over? Why do your friends come over and say, "Girl, let's go do this.

Girl, let's go do that." You jump up and you up. I ask you, "Let's walk to the park." Sometimes you be like, "I don't feel like it. Not all day. I'm tired." But it's just like when they say, "Come on let's go. And wooo ooo ooo, you up in the wind." Therapist 159: Is that a guy thing or is this something-- Female Client 105: No this is girls.

Male Client 130: This is girl friends.

Female Client 106: This is just one specific girl.

Male Client 131: This is the girl friends. She don't do it with the male friends like with the girl friends.

Therapist 160: Okay. Let's just stick with the guy thing for a minute. Because I think that, you know, it's one of the things that happens if you try to kind of talk about six problems at once, we're never going to solve any of them.

Male Client 132: Okay.

Therapist 161: But if we try to focus on one, you might have a better chance.

Male Client 133: Okay. Therapist 162: So let's go back to the guy, the guy think. Okay? I think you had an idea which was to see if you could be introduced to these.

Male Client 134: Right. That would help me out more than anything. Let me get to know these guys.

Female Client 107: How you gonna get to know them when every time they walk up you be like, "What is you doin' with my woman?" And then they be like, "Man, dude, I wasn't even, you know, I was just walking around." You be like, "I his you in your ass." Or, "I'll stomp you." Therapist 163: Yeah, is his idea okay? Is his idea okay to have the guys that you're friends with get to know-- Female Client 108: I'll try to introduce them.

Therapist 164: So you don't mind the idea?

Female Client 109: Mm mm.

Therapist 165: How could you guys make that happen then?

Female Client 110: Only thing I could do is just stay away from the guys.

Therapist 166: Mm hm.

Female Client 111: Which I have done.

Therapist 167: Mm hm.

Therapist 168: Is that a complete solution?

Female Client 112: Mm hm. Just stay away.

Male Client 135: It sound good to me.

Therapist 169: Yeah. Yeah.

Male Client 136: Sound good to me.

Therapist 170: Completely. Never talk to another man.

Male Client 137: No. I'm not saying-- Therapist 171: Never ever?

Male Client 138: She can talk.

Female Client 113: Nah, I just wait.

Male Client 139: She can talk and say, "Hi." And, "Bye." Or whatever. But all of that 30 minute conversations and, uh uh. When you're walking down the street with me, you're with me. Don't wave at your friends and say, "How you doin'?" And he waving at you. No. Now you just keep on walking. When I'm not with you, okay, cool.

Therapist 172: He's telling her this, not me.

Male Client 140: You know. When you all walking down the street together, you know what I'm saying? It's like if me and you walking down the street and one of your guy friends be like, "Hey, what's up shorty?" And when you talk back, "Hey, how you doin'?" That disrespectful to me because I wouldn't do it to you. If you walking down the street-- Female Client 114: What about the time we was in Goldblatt's? "Oh, hi, Ricky." Male Client 141: But that's somebody that I went to school a long, long time ago with.

Female Client 115: It don't matter.

Male Client 142: And you was with me.

Female Client 116: And you would be with me.

Male Client 143: And I told you and the girl herself, she said, "Excuse me. I don't mean no harm or no disrespect to you." She told you this, right? Right?

Female Client 117: She didn't disrespect me by speaking to you. I don't go off of that.

Male Client 144: What I'm saying is what she said was, before she spoke she said, "Excuse me. I don't mean no disrespect. Didn't you go to Bay School?" Female Client 118: No she said, "Excuse me." Male Client 145: Right.

Female Client 119: To you.

Male Client 146: Right. But-- Therapist 173: Not to you?

Female Client 120: Not to me.

Male Client 147: But your guy friends don't do that. They don't be saying, "Excuse me." Female Client 121: Because they be walking past and they say, "Hey, shorty." I say, "Hi." And you be like, "Why do you have to say it like that all sexy?" Male Client 148: All I'm saying if you know it's a problem in our relationship, you shouldn't do it.

Female Client 122: I don't do it anymore.

Male Client 149: Right. I ain't saying you do it now, but you use to. You use to and then that make me more like mad. Let me go over there and get me a drink. Alcohol could be my girl friend if you did it. That's why I do that. And maybe you would stop doing it, you know what I'm saying? Like if you stop doin' it so much then maybe I could put that bottle down.

Female Client 123: So you're trying to blame it on me.

Male Client 150: Yep.

Therapist 174: I think there's a fine line in here. You know, I think that there are situations that make people feel like using and it sounds like this is a big one for you, that feeling of jealous and that feeling of, you know, not being good enough. But at the same time there's a decision that each person makes about, you know, you can feel that way and you can say, "I feel really hurt and jealous. And, you know, damn I'm not going to drink just because of that." Or, "I feel really hurt and jealous and I'm going to drink." So there's still, there's the situation and then there's still something that goes on, you know, in each person's head about a choice and a decision about how they're going to react to it.

Female Client 124: Mm hm.

Therapist 175: If the situations aren't there, it's a lot easier to stay clean and sober.

Male Client 151: Right.

Therapist 176: If it doesn't happen, it's much easier. And that's what you're looking for is kind of, I don't want it to happen.

Male Client 152: Right.

Therapist 177: But I think the other half is it's probable, I mean you guys could be together a really long time.

It's probable in the next 20 years that sometimes you're going to see men that you know.

Female Client 125: Mm hm.

Therapist 178: You know, or old friends and you're gonna say, "Hi." And you're gonna look really friendly.

And you're going to have this, "Oh!" You know, this hurt.

Male Client 153: Yeah.

Therapist 179: And the sort of other half of it is to say what is it that you can do inside of yourself to say even if I have this feeling for a minute, I don't want to make that, I don't want to drink. You know, that shouldn't make me drink. I don't, do you know what I'm saying?

Male Client 154: I understand what you're saying.

Therapist 180: Because I think that, you know, there's kind of a give and take here. You know, that you're saying you're willing to, you know, not hang out with other guys and, you know, not spend a lot of time talking to them when the two of you are together.

Female Client 126: Right.

Therapist 181: But unless you kind of get put in a closet, it's probable, you know, you could put her in a glass case or something, but-- Female Client 127: And walk with me on his back.

Therapist 182: Yeah. Unless you do that she's probably gonna see guys she knows, you know?

Male Client 155: But not when it's like your ex-boyfriend. Those you aren't suppose to talk to period. That ain't suppose to be no, "Hi." No nothin'. No conversation. No nothin'.

Female Client 128: All of my ex-boyfriends from previous time, I never make a enemy. So if after we did break up I don't leave them like, "I hate her." You know and stuff like that? So that I leave them with a sense, "She a sweet person." You know?

Therapist 183: You get along with people.

Female Client 129: I'm glad. You with this brother. You know? I get along with everybody. I could meet somebody on the street. I don't care. They like me for me. Therapist 184: Mm hm. So it sounds like this, the jealousy thing is something that's like a trigger for both of you in terms of making it hard to stay clean.

Male Client 156: It is.

Therapist 185: Yeah. Are we coming to a solution that would make it easier. Because you asked, this all started with her asking you not to be, act so jealous.

Female Client 130: Mm hm.

Therapist 186: And it seems like we've gotten to like you should change some of your behavior.

Female Client 131: Mm hm.

Therapist 187: Okay. So where would you like, you gotta be fair about this. That's the deal with the two of you. At least that's the way I think about it. So if she's saying, "Okay, I'm going to really, you know, make it a point not to spend much time with these guys. And if I see people I'll just say, 'Hi,' and nothing else." But if you're kind of feeling, if you're feeling kind of jealous at some point, what can you do differently that's going to help her? Instead of like going off which is what you do, right?

Male Client 157: Yes. Okay. I'll work hard on trying to stop drinking so much. Because, like I said, that is the biggest, that's one of the biggest problems why I drink is that I'm going to lose you to another guy who got more than I got. And if you can work on what you're working on as far as your male friends and I can work on what I'm working on, you know what I'm saying? My drinking. That's a deal?

Female Client 132: That's a deal.

Therapist 188: Mm hm. Okay. How you gonna do that? I'm such a nag. You come up with this really good thing and you guys are feeling good. I'm saying, okay. What's the next step. How are you gonna do that?

You've gone from two pints to a half a pint.

Male Client 158: It just like I'm gonna try.

Therapist 189: Okay.

Male Client 159: I'm gonna try to just go ahead and just stop permanently. I'm gonna try to get like a week or two week basis with not drinking nothin' and none of that for two weeks. And if I can make it through two weeks with not drinking, then I can stop. And then maybe our relationship would get better and we could have that trust. Because it's best for us to have that trust before we get married. Because I don't want to have that same jealousy rage in me before we get married.

Female Client 133: Because then it will get worse.

Male Client 160: Then it gonna get worse and worse and then we're gonna be out of thousands thousands of dollars going through counseling and therapists.

Therapist 190: Do you like this idea of him saying he's gonna stop now?

Female Client 134: Yeah.

Therapist 191: Do a lot, put a lot of effort into it.

Female Client 135: I believe him. From now on just go out for milk.

Therapist 192: Okay. So this is good. You're as bad as I am. Like, okay let's keep going. Therapist 193: When do you usually start drinking? When do you go out and get that bottle?

Male Client 161: About 12:00. And it's gone like at 12:15.

Therapist 194: Okay so you just do it fast.

Female Client 136: Just drink it like that.

Therapist 195: Okay.

Male Client 162: So when I go in the store I get it, bust it down, and it's gone.

Therapist 196: Now what are you feeling like before you go?

Male Client 163: Like, man.

Therapist 197: Are you restless?

Female Client 137: All his thoughts and pressures.

Male Client 164: I think about everything. There's all, the peer pressure with my guys, and the peer pressure with her, and the peer pressure with the kids.

Therapist 198: Okay. So your head's kind of going a mile a minute.

Male Client 165: It just like, it's just spinning. It's just spinning.

Therapist 199: Yeah. Yeah. How about your body? Are you feeling edgy or restless?

Male Client 166: My body it just feel like if I don't take that drink I ain't got no energy. I'm laid back. When I ain't drinking I'm laid back and it's all good. When I got that drink, I'm all energetic.

Female Client 138: He'll like want to go rake the grass, mow the lawn.

Male Client 167: Like thinking I lift cars and-- Therapist 200: This is after you've had-- Male Client 168: Yeah. Make me feel like I'm Rambo. That I can't be touched or bullets will bounce off me and everything.

Therapist 201: That's a great feeling. Do you like that feeling? I mean it sounds like it.

Male Client 169: It's like, that feeling, yeah. It's just like, it make me feel like, "Man, I'm untouchable. I could walk through a wall." And I liked that feeling.

Therapist 202: Yeah.

Male Client 170: And it's like I can take all my pressures away like I don't got none. All I could think about is going and lifting up a Volvo or a Cadillac.

Therapist 203: Or an Expedition, right.

Male Client 171: Right, Expedition.

Female Client 139: Expedition. Therapist 204: But I guess, so I guess what I'm thinking about is like when you stop if you say like tomorrow you're not going to go out at noon, okay, I think that's going to be a really hard time.

Male Client 172: Yeah.

Therapist 205: Because it's like you're used to it. You've got a real habit going. And there's something you really get from it. It's like this incredible feeling. So I'm thinking that's going to be a hard time. And I'm wondering if, we've got like a couple minutes left that we can talk. If there's some things that might help you because, you're right, if you can get through a couple of weeks without it, it will start getting a little easier.

Male Client 173: Right.

Therapist 206: But especially those first few days, your body is going to be going, "Where is it!" You know?

Male Client 174: Right.

Therapist 207: "I'm so use, I want my alcohol." Male Client 175: And the only suggestion I can say is to, if my body get to feeling like that going out, like I said, fix me something to eat. Go to the store and get me a couple of candy bars and some soda.

Therapist 208: Why don't you tell Claudette.

Male Client 176: You know? A couple of candy bars and some soda.

Female Client 140: You got that anyway.

Male Client 177: So, well, I have to go out and get it. And I probably, I'm gonna try to do my best.

Female Client 141: Only thing-- Male Client 178: To stop all that drinking.

Female Client 142: Reroute from the store at 12:00 noon and that will stop.

Male Client 179: And I'll just go to the park and jog around.

Female Client 143: Because see what I did? I just stayed in the house. Minded the kids like I normally do.

Watch TV. Work around the house. I do all that.

Therapist 209: So you think that would be good for him?

Female Client 144: Mm hm.

Therapist 210: Stay in?

Female Client 145: Not stay in but when you go out at 12:00 noon, just have a goal. You know, go out to do something better than, "Oh, I think I'll go to the store." Male Client 180: Or I could like I did when I was in the penitentiary up in there. We had homemade alcohol and I could just look, look, look, look, look.

Female Client 146: Then you want to make-- Male Client 181: No. I'm not saying make any homemade alcohol. I'm saying up in there it was kind of hard for me to do it so I stayed in the gym working out.

Female Client 147: Right.

Male Client 182: I would just go into the basement and work out with my weights more, you know. And that would help me because it's like when I work out that relieve all the stress and the pressure. I don't need no drink. I don't need no marijuana. I don't need no square. I don't need no none of that. So I just work out more.

Therapist 211: You think that sounds like a good idea?

Female Client 148: Yeah.

Therapist 212: Yeah.

Female Client 149: Because then I'd work out with him.

Therapist 213: Mm hm. Okay. I'll suggest that if you're gonna do that, which sounds like a really good idea, that you do it, start a little bit before the time you normally go out to get to buy the alcohol. So if you normally go out at noon-- Male Client 183: Go out at about 11:00, 11:30.

Therapist 214: Yeah, 11:00, 11:30. Have a really good work out. You know, have something to eat together.

And that may help you get through some of that, you know, that period.

Male Client 184: Okay. That's the stuff that I ain't knowed. That I learned here today.

Therapist 215: What did you learn?

Male Client 185: I learned that if I don't get my jealousy together, I ain't gonna have her for long. I'm gonna lose her.

Therapist 216: And make it hard, then it would be hard for her to stay clean.

Female Client 150: Yeah.

Therapist 217: Let me, since we're almost at the end here I want to give you guys a little bit of feedback.

Female Client 151: Okay.

Therapist 218: And hopefully make a suggestion or two. I think, you're trying to do something that's really hard. You know, because you've both been drinking, you've both been smoking marijuana. You're both in a position where you don't have jobs right now. You've got that, you said the "X," you know, from the penitentiary. So, you know, you're in a really difficult place. You've got the kids. And the fact that you've both completely stopped the marijuana, that you've cut way down on the alcohol, that you've stopped is incredible. And it's really, really, it shows a lot of commitment on both of your parts. You know, you're both very clear about the reasons to stop. You have really, really good positive things that you want and you have things that you want to get rid of. And having both of those, you've got goals and you've got things you want to put behind you, I think that's really an important part of, you know, kind of staying clean. And you've already started doing a lot of very, very smart things. I mean really smart things. You know, you've gotten the beer out of the house.

Female Client 152: Mm hm. Therapist 219: You've gotten a bunch of activities that you're doing that, you know, kind of distract you from it. You're out there looking for jobs even though I know it's frustrating but you're going in that direction.

And, you know, I was, I've been really impressed today that the two of you are talking to each other. You know, you were, that, I'm sure this was not an easy conversation about the jealousy.

Male Client 186: Right. It wasn't.

Female Client 153: Mm hm.

Therapist 220: And-- Female Client 154: But we always do talk.

Therapist 221: You always do talk?

Female Client 155: Mm hm.

Therapist 222: Yeah.

Male Client 187: Well it's just that today-- Female Client 156: We didn't get into an argument.

Therapist 223: Yeah.

Male Client : We didn't get into any argument about it.

Therapist 224: Why did you think it was different? I know the cameras and lights and another person.

Male Client 188: It just like, it can't be the camera because we use to do this in public around, I didn't care who was around. So it was basically like with the cameras away it's the same thing.

Therapist 225: Okay.

Male Client 189: It's just like right now we're talking more openly about us having a therapist there, you know. And it's like it's better. I see this stuff. Dream about this stuff on TV.

Therapist 226: Yeah.

Male Client 190: I see lots of these shows and they had the therapists on them and I'm like, "Man, we need that." But I ain't had the money to go to see Montel Williams, their therapists, and all the other people so.

Therapist 227: Yeah. I'm not sure he's the best therapist. But I'll tell you, I think you guys did something. I helped you a little bit but I think really helped you talk differently.

Male Client 191: Right.

Therapist 228: Which is first of all you let each other talk. Because at first you guys were like, you both had so much to say you were both talking at the same time. But you, the simple fact of like taking turns makes it easier. The fact that you listened to each other and you did, you know, you were hearing what the other person was saying was really, I think, very important. And you, you know you made some very specific requests. You made some very specific requests. And neither of you laughed at the other person or blew up about it. You know, you took the request seriously. You didn't necessarily completely agree, which is fine.

It's like two people are going to have different views even if they both are the same sign. You know, you're going to have different perspectives. But the fact that you both could could think of there are things that I'd like you to do. And the other person could say, "Well, let me think about that. That might not be exactly what I want to do but I'm going to listen to you and I'm going to try." Female Client 157: Mm hm.

Therapist 229: And, you know, I mean I was really encouraging you to try to compromise and you were both, you know, you were both there. You were both listening to that. So I think that that, you know, letting each other talk, listening, making requests, compromising is really an important, that's what really good communication can be. And it seems like you, it wasn't very hard for you to do that. I wasn't working real hard to get you to do it. I just gave you like about three or four suggestions and you guys went off with it. So then I think you got a lot of work ahead of you.

Male Client 192: Yeah. I know.

Therapist 230: And just that you may have some dips in it, but, you know, in terms of-- Female Client 158: But as long as we like together.

Therapist 231: Mm hm.

Male Client 193: Yeah.

Therapist 232: Yeah. I think that that's really important that you do work together. So I think we're pretty much out of time. Any like questions you want to ask me before we stop stop?

Male Client 194: I want your autograph.

Female Client 159: Uh uh.

Therapist 233: Do you have any questions?

Female Client 160: Not really.

Therapist 234: Well, thanks again.

Female Client 161: I think you did a good job.

Therapist 235: Well, thank you.

Female Client 162: Helping us listen to each other.

Therapist 236: Well, as I say, thank you for coming again and doing this.

Female Client 163: We were glad to be here.

Therapist 237: I think that, hopefully it helped you but I think it will also help other people.

Male Client 195: Thank you.

Therapist 238: Okay. Great Male Client 196: That's it?

Therapist 239: Uh huh. Yeah.